AT-28D-5

uncle twist

Well-known member
RE: post 359...Well, I don`t have time or know how to send the two layers, the only way I can think of is to post a CS for you, which would come with the s.tga and .tga files as well as the n.tga, but that`s not the issue. ......RE: the s.tga, for me, all I know is that it adjust the brightness/glossiness in RF...white is bright..black is flat (no gloss)......yeah, I agree about how the picture shows, it`s probably just a rendering issue...last paragraph, I`ll just wait for your beta, but things are looking good at this point........RE: post 360, all looks good there, we`ll wait and see what the beta looks like in RF, that's really the only way to tell.
 

technoid

Well-known member
RE: post 359...Well, I don`t have time or know how to send the two layers, the only way I can think of is to post a CS for you, which would come with the s.tga and .tga files as well as the n.tga, but that`s not the issue. ......RE: the s.tga, for me, all I know is that it adjust the brightness/glossiness in RF...white is bright..black is flat (no gloss)......yeah, I agree about how the picture shows, it`s probably just a rendering issue...last paragraph, I`ll just wait for your beta, but things are looking good at this point........RE: post 360, all looks good there, we`ll wait and see what the beta looks like in RF, that's really the only way to tell.
Okay I'll upload a new beta soon but I just finished cooking dinner then after we eat we'll watch a movie so I'll upload a new beta later tonight or tomorrow morning for you to check out. Thanks for all your help with this.
 

PilotAt6

Well-known member
Technoid ..... More on the smoke routine.
I set :
RPM START to Min = 250 or so Max = 350 or so
AIRSPEED FLYING to min=25 or so Max = 26 or so
Standard Mix ( two variables ) RPM START ,reverse = No ; AIRSPEED FLYING, reverse= No Mix Type = Minimum
When either the RPM or Flying speed is below about the midpoint of each " variable " then the smoke is off.
I use Many such mixes in most of my VA's without noticeable visual effects. Remember the scan rate of our eyes is ~ 33 Hz ... The old film speed used was 21 frames per second to save film. If you display the scan variable in RF , it turns red at 30 , so they did their homework. Most of our computers are way above this.
However, as they say .... One test is worth 1000 " expert " opinions.
 

technoid

Well-known member
Technoid ..... More on the smoke routine.
I set :
RPM START to Min = 250 or so Max = 350 or so
AIRSPEED FLYING to min=25 or so Max = 26 or so
Standard Mix ( two variables ) RPM START ,reverse = No ; AIRSPEED FLYING, reverse= No Mix Type = Minimum
When either the RPM or Flying speed is below about the midpoint of each " variable " then the smoke is off.
I use Many such mixes in most of my VA's without noticeable visual effects. Remember the scan rate of our eyes is ~ 33 Hz ... The old film speed used was 21 frames per second to save film. If you display the scan variable in RF , it turns red at 30 , so they did their homework. Most of our computers are way above this.
However, as they say .... One test is worth 1000 " expert " opinions.
Okay thanks that's what I figured you did. But in that scheme where does the Smoke Switch get connected to override the auto control?
 

technoid

Well-known member
Here's a new beta with hopefully panel lines and rivets that show much better. @uncle twist please give it a good look I want you to be the point man on this so tell me what I need to change to get it where you think it should be, a bit lighter or a bit darker.. whatever you think it needs. It's not hard to lighten or darken them so let me know what you think it needs. Other than that I don't think there's any change to the plane.

T-28B Trojan 20% EP 12.jpg
 

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space boy

Well-known member
Here's a new beta with hopefully panel lines and rivets that show much better. @uncle twist please give it a good look I want you to be the point man on this so tell me what I need to change to get it where you think it should be, a bit lighter or a bit darker.. whatever you think it needs. It's not hard to lighten or darken them so let me know what you think it needs. Other than that I don't think there's any change to the plane.

View attachment 129269
You must have included the image, not as an attachment, but as an image object, and that's good because images included as attachments have the file info overlaid, and that's ugly, isn't it?
 

technoid

Well-known member
@space boy After I typed the message I used the paper clip icon at the bottom to attach a file then I selected the image on my hard drive to upload. After it uploaded I chose the thumbnail option to display it in the message. Is that the way you mean?
 

space boy

Well-known member
oh wow. I hadn't ever used the thumbnail method. What I meant by image object is the icon of a landscape painting next to the icon of the chain links. 😄
 

uncle twist

Well-known member
Looking at your pic. in post #365, I`d say everything looks perfect, looking at the pic. asj posted, the lines look much darker to me, but that must the difference between the way "X" and 9.5 render color and/or lighting, BUT, is the shaded side as well....Looking at my pics.... #1 is in the sun, lines are still looking washed out in the direct sunlight, but get better as the light hits it less towards the bottom...pic. #2 is the shaded side as you can see, and things look a ton better. #3 & 4 are obviously looking straight down, again, things still look washed out BUT a little better (you can see the lines a little). I think you mentioned earlier that you wanted to leave "SOME" gloss/shine/reflectiveness (call it what you want) on the plane, I`d say that`s fine on the orange areas, BUT eliminate it completely on the white areas, the white will still look fine. If you want try that, Just a guess, BUT, I`m pretty sure there will be a big improvement. I`d try it myself, but I`ve got to many things to catch up on.
 

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technoid

Well-known member
Looking at your pic. in post #365, I`d say everything looks perfect, looking at the pic. asj posted, the lines look much darker to me, but that must the difference between the way "X" and 9.5 render color and/or lighting, BUT, is the shaded side as well....Looking at my pics.... #1 is in the sun, lines are still looking washed out in the direct sunlight, but get better as the light hits it less towards the bottom...pic. #2 is the shaded side as you can see, and things look a ton better. #3 & 4 are obviously looking straight down, again, things still look washed out BUT a little better (you can see the lines a little). I think you mentioned earlier that you wanted to leave "SOME" gloss/shine/reflectiveness (call it what you want) on the plane, I`d say that`s fine on the orange areas, BUT eliminate it completely on the white areas, the white will still look fine. If you want try that, Just a guess, BUT, I`m pretty sure there will be a big improvement. I`d try it myself, but I`ve got to many things to catch up on.
Okay thanks UT I've already done a bit more work on it. After I uploaded the beta I went back and created a MASK just for the white areas in the SPEC MAP thinking the same thing I needed to be able to adjust the SPEC MAP RGB and ALPHA layers just for the white area. I've already lowered the white areas a little but I didn't really see an improvement but I'll lower the values even more and see what happens. Thanks for looking at it.

I'm not sure what the difference is between how ASJ took his picture in RF-X and how I took mine but here's what I got in RF-X.

RF-X 01.jpg
 

PilotAt6

Well-known member
Technoid ... Even more on Smoke
Guess I was thinking more as exhaust smoke rather than show smoke.
Two thoughts come to my mind..
1. I would substitute a switch for the airspeed. Reasoning - I've been at air shows where the pilot had smoke on while sitting still, then took off in a cloud of smoke. Switch on and engine running = smoke.

2. To mix all three, I would take the first mix and mix it with a second mix to include the switch. ( mix the mix )

I'm sure the three can be done with a multi-mix, but they only add values and I'm not good using that logic in cases like this, plus you may need to include reverser's .... Too messy and mind bending for me.

By the way, your aircraft looks and fly's great ...
 

uncle twist

Well-known member
That`s huge difference between the two, on a side note, the pics. I posted above, are posted backwards in order 1,2,3 and 4 are now 4,3,2 and 1....HMMM :unsure: :unsure:
 

technoid

Well-known member
Technoid ... Even more on Smoke
Guess I was thinking more as exhaust smoke rather than show smoke.
Two thoughts come to my mind..
1. I would substitute a switch for the airspeed. Reasoning - I've been at air shows where the pilot had smoke on while sitting still, then took off in a cloud of smoke. Switch on and engine running = smoke.

2. To mix all three, I would take the first mix and mix it with a second mix to include the switch. ( mix the mix )

I'm sure the three can be done with a multi-mix, but they only add values and I'm not good using that logic in cases like this, plus you may need to include reverser's .... Too messy and mind bending for me.

By the way, your aircraft looks and fly's great ...
Okay thanks. I already have it in there and it works fine. I used an RPM Sensor and the Smoke Switch feeding a Mixer using the Multiply logic. Then the output of the Mixer went to a Modifier which converted the "sometimes" "0" output of the mixer to the correct values for the Smoke Servo. Having the Smoke Switch input on the Mixer sometimes caused a "0" output which didn't turn the smoke off all the way so the Modifier was needed to fix that.

So your system is up and running again?
 
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technoid

Well-known member
That`s huge difference between the two, on a side note, the pics. I posted above, are posted backwards in order 1,2,3 and 4 are now 4,3,2 and 1....HMMM :unsure: :unsure:
I had already looked at it in RF-X but when I saw his post I went back and looked again to make sure it was still the same way so I grabbed a picture. I don't know why RF-X looks different on our systems. Maybe ASJ knows why.
 

technoid

Well-known member
Okay I went back and played with the panel lines and rivets some more tonight but to me I didn't see any results. Like I said I created a MASK so I could easily apply a darker color to Just The White Areas of the Plane and I went down twice to darker colors but I didn't see much difference. The last color I tried was pretty dark which made the white look like chalk to me, no real "sheen" at all. Or none that I can see. Anyway here's two pictures so you can see what I mean.

The first picture is the SPEC MAP and you can see the very dark color covering all the white area's of the plane. Both the RGB Layer and the ALPHA Layer have the dark colors on it. The second picture is looking down on the plane in the Flight Scool field like UT was using in his pictures.

Thanks UT for all your help on this but I'm done with it. I'm going to release the plane with the normal color scheme and probably put together a panel lines and rivets separate color scheme (Probably but for now the panel lines and rivets are on my list - I'm sure you know what list that is)

T-28B Trojan 20% EP_s.jpgScreenShot1651636781.jpg
 
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uncle twist

Well-known member
Okay I went back and played with the panel lines and rivets some more tonight but to me I didn't see any results. Like I said I created a MASK so I could easily apply a darker color to Just The White Areas of the Plane and I went down twice to darker colors but I didn't see much difference. The last color I tried was pretty dark which made the white look like chalk to me, no real "sheen" at all. Or none that I can see. Anyway here's two pictures so you can see what I mean.

The first picture is the SPEC MAP and you can see the very dark color covering all the white area's of the plane. Both the RGB Layer and the ALPHA Layer have the dark colors on it. The second picture is looking down on the plane in the Flight Scool field like UT was using in his pictures.

Thanks UT for all your help on this but I'm done with it. I'm going to release the plane with the normal color scheme and probably put together a panel lines and rivets separate color scheme (Probably but for now the panel lines and rivets are on my list - I'm sure you know what list that is)

View attachment 129293View attachment 129294
OK, well, I can tell you for sure that I used a darker color on the white area, pretty much what you have in the lower left corner,...... remember, I only played/experimented with right wing. SO, if you want, try coloring all the white areas a darker color on the "TOP" of the plane, (wings, H-stab, canopy, top 1/2-3/4 of the fuse..etc.) no real need to do the bottom because no sunlight hits those areas and they look fine as is, what you have is looking real close, the lines/rivets , I think should be just a little darker IMHO, Here`s a couple of pics., One , a pic. of an access panel from gimp, I think if you can load that into your paint program and color pic. it, you can use it for your lines and rivets, be sure to pick from the circle, (I didn`t color the rivets), if you look real close you can see the difference between the shades of gray. I know it`s not much, but it does make a difference. The second pic. is in RF, you can see the diff., a slightly darker color of gray makes the lines stand out just slightly more.
 

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