Export error with NUP values

Fly_electric

Well-known member
In working with a new model I am getting the "unexpected error" as soon as NUP values are added. This is with the new exporter. So, tried an export on a model that exported OK last month using the previous exporter. Same error now using the new exporter.
Are there some new rules or restrictions with the new Exporter?

Thanks
 

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I'm wondering if this is a similar issue with importing on models not setup the same? I'm assuming you're talking about getting an error trying to import into RF?
 
I don't expect anything like that to change between the two exporters. Can you try exporting the same model(s) with the older exporter and see if the results are any different?

This issue aside, are people still having trouble importing .kex files in general? 7.00.028 fixed the problems we have seen so far. Willsonman alluded to some issues a little while back, but it sounded like there were a number of different things going on in that situation, and so far he hasn't provided any more info. Please let us know if there are still problems.
 
Ryan, this bug was also a problem for me. In the case of a ferris wherl object (pirolooping stingray), I couldn't export it on the new exporter, on the old one it was just fine. On my Eurocopter X3 I couldn't export it with NUP either and had to do the gear animation with movable pods. Getting below 20.000 was imposaible for this model...
Otherwise, I haven't had any issues with and importing KEXes :)

Jonas
 
I never had any issues with NUP values. I forgot GD1 proper use but tat was easily fixed and my own bone head mistake.
 
This issue aside, are people still having trouble importing .kex files in general? 7.00.028 fixed the problems we have seen so far.

The problems I was seeing earlier seem to have been fixed as well. Ill test a few more when I get a chance to double check.
 
Andy:
This is at the point of exporting to a kex with the V7 exporter. There was an issue earlier, with some in-process models importing into RF7. There, those did not as yet have fin and rudder (MMVS & MMR) objects. Ver 6 would give warnings about missing parts and yet still run, but Ver 7 crashes. In that it forces the builder to be more disciplined (the parts should be there of course), this "feature" is probably a good thing.
Providing a warning in Ver 6 though, helped in figuring out WHY there was a crash.

Experience has shown NUP entries have always been demanding. This may be the same thing, with a step up. By that I mean the new exporter may have cleaned up some holes in the code logic that would allow and recover from a bit of error. In particular, I've not always had a pivot aligned on the world axis. Used the appropriate axis for the NUP value and the animation was ok. Now, it may be they MUST be world axis aligned.

For both the RF7 and the exporter, it would be of GREAT help to us if all (or least more) of the error paths would provide unique and more descriptive messages. Based on work by a colleague, I know it is not easy to cover them all, and often the generic "unexpected" is simply used. That does not help anybody though.
May I suggest the following for RF and the exporter if adding unique error messages is difficult due to code complexity or length:
Add info on the module and/or code line were the error occurred in the error message window. Means nothing to us, but it should help the programmer in seeing our posted reports of screen captures showing that. Another approach would be a ASCII log file of errors with descriptive comments (such as the object name) we could review.


Ryan:
I am not familiar with the steps to go back and forth on the exporter versions (nor if I have the older one, unless KE has both available to DL).
 
Ok, wasn't sure of where you were having troubles. My response though us linked to importing a kex based on a model that's not setup exactly as the kex. For example, if I tried basing a mono wing plane on a bipe for some reason, RF 7 would not allow that. If my model had servos and the base didn't, it wouldn't let me. I would almost bet that even if you were missing parts, as long as you based your kex on a model with the same missing parts, your issue would not have happened.
 
Requiring a new model to be set up exactly as an existing base one: NOT looking forward to that.... What if it was a quad wing, or had 8 motors? There would be no such base model, and I guess we'd be forced to start from the default RF suggests and make the physics from scratch.


Ryan:
This 3rd party tool is for Delphi only, but the screenshots show the info that would useful to KE programmers. There may be something similar available for MS VC++, which I think RF is programmed in:

http://www.dimusware.com/products/excmagic/index.html
 
The update seems to have fixed the problem on basing the kex. I did a quick import this morning of my Katana based on a Pitts and it went through, so looks like that won't be an issue anymore.
 
FE, I think you may have a problem in your process. A. It seams you are importing incomplete models into RF as you're creating the model. If this is the case you should expect inherent errors.
B. You seam to be using the base model physic setup and leaning on that for your new model. If so you will still encounter errors. I suggest that anyone making a model to have the minimum required parts included on the model before import. These being landing gear and wheels, wings, tail flight surfaces and all control surfaces. I also suggest that all serious attempts should get unique new wire frames in the editor. That way you're not borrowing problems and errors. This makes it easier to troubleshoot your model. As for the exporter throwing an error when NUP values are present. It doesn't make sense that raising the poly limit should affect these parameters.
 
FE, I think you may have a problem in your process. A. It seams you are importing incomplete models into RF as you're creating the model. If this is the case you should expect inherent errors.
B. You seam to be using the base model physic setup and leaning on that for your new model. If so you will still encounter errors. I suggest that anyone making a model to have the minimum required parts included on the model before import. These being landing gear and wheels, wings, tail flight surfaces and all control surfaces. I also suggest that all serious attempts should get unique new wire frames in the editor. That way you're not borrowing problems and errors. This makes it easier to troubleshoot your model. As for the exporter throwing an error when NUP values are present. It doesn't make sense that raising the poly limit should affect these parameters.

Absolutely.

A. All minimum parts are normally present in planes initially imported-- as they should be. The two models in question happened to not be so (remembering that I am working on finishing many in process models). The point intended was if the details of missing parts are unknown (such as not if working on the model for awhile, or maybe finishing up a model on the behalf of another modeler), RF7 did not not provide the clues RF6 did as an aid indicating where to look. Admittedly, that may have changed, as I am behind on getting the latest update. But at the time, the RF7 crashing was fixed with added the missing part names, and work moved on.

B. New models based on existing ones has always worked. The new models contain the bare minimum of required parts, as you mention, and the base model selected is also very basic. Once the import is done, it is immediately saved with it's new name. After that new parts and features are added to "build up" the model towards it's final state. For example, the initial model (and its base model) has no retracts, and then eventually the first NUP is added, such as the nose gear. Make sure that works as intended and then add its gear doors or one of the mains. By increasing the NUP count one at a time, it is clear where to look if the "unknown error" shows up. As there is no mechanism available to us as to what part or setting by name has the problem, we simply have to add items one at a time.
As to the present NUP error on the new model, I'm rather sure I've missed something obvious on its first pass. :eek: The greater mystery is the fairly recent older model. It was initially built and imported on RF6 and the previous kex exporter. When RF7 was installed, the model converted over just fine, so there was no need to re-export the kex. When the kex export problem with the new model is figured out, it will hopefully provide the clues needed to resolve the older one.
Will report on what is found.
We are all in this together, so that info may help someone else!
 
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After some more checking the problem was LG doors. Clearing the NUP values was not enough, the doors themselves had to be deleted. Verified it several times by starting each time with a copy of the max file that failed with the new exporter. Did not run through all the combination of deleting/exporting, but some of the 4 doors on the mains always had to go. Every tested older model with gear doors so far fails with the new exporter.
Best guess is that it has something to do with the wing and gear doors likely have been mirrored in the same operation. Have had odd things happen in the past to aileron pivots if they are mirrored along with the wing. Now mirror only one part each time, and no longer have any problems.
Am rather sure I forgot to do that when the older files were made.

The timing of discovering the error was actually a good thing. The LG on the in process Force 10 was originally modeled per plans and is actually in the wrong place. The full gear doors and wells would not shift forward cleanly, so I was therefore already in the process of redoing the LG anyway.
Each part of the main gear was mirrored separately when ready, and there were no V7 exporter errors.
 

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This post is for the programmers at KE. Came across the "unknown error" again and after some trial and error, have boiled things down to a single max file. This particular file contains only three parts to approximate the housing, LG wire and LG wire support pieces of a retract unit. It was originally created from a copy of the full plane and everything was deleted except those three parts and the result saved as a new max file for use in importing to a scene as required. For simplicity, the LG wire was deleted in the file posted here.
What has been found is if the LG support block is imported into a scene, and if its name begins with "~CS_" the unknown error occurs with the new exporter. Give it a different name and the export is ok. Because the block will be part of a steerable retract nose gear unit, it needs the ~CS_ in the part name, vs use in the mains where it is simply part of the ~CS_RG and ~CS_LG objects.
The block is very simple with no known geometry errors.
Hopefully, this max file can be used to determine what is unique about the object that causes the error with the new exporter.
 

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Beginning to suspect it may be time to reinstall max again:

Took a look at another model in the "to be finished" list yesterday. As with all earlier successfully kex exported models (they are flying in RF) having NUP values, that one also initially got an unknown error when exporting with the new exporter.
So, did the usual deletion of the LG (this one has no gear doors) and created anew.
Then it was time to add some animation, and gave all three gears their initial NUP values. The nose gear was straightforward, but the mains were trickier.
That plane has a swept back wing, so the local X and Z pivots were adjusted as needed so a rotation on the Y axis gave the proper motion. Worked with just the left gear in getting the settings correct.
Looked good in RF7, but with a NUP value of 94 degrees the motion was just a bit short. OK, bump it up to 96, export. "unknown error"....... The error is fatal once it occurs (changing back the NUP value does not fix the error).
So, after all the LG editing time invested, needed a break. Shutdown max and the PC. Came back to it later that night.
Opened the latest Autoback max file. It contained the correct X and Z values and the 94 degree NUP value.
Export: OK
Increase to 96 degrees: still ok ??????????

One clue has appeared (well, maybe it's a clue) when the successful exported plane loads into RF7, there is a message displayed:
Landing Gear Child Component has no Frame
All looks ok, but am open to suggestions to check.

The only time I ever saw the unknown error with the previous exporter was with a typo in a NUP text line. Then, the error was recoverable until the correction was made, such as deleting the NUP text line to locate the error source. Now, the error is fatal to the max file it was exported from (only deleting the part fixes it).

As mentioned in the beginning, it may be time to re-install max.
 
Update:

Re-installed max and the previous kex exporter.
Have test exported several max files with NUP values (older and newer): no errors.
 
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