Issues with Radeon 5700 XT

Ryan Douglas

Ryan Douglas

Administrator
Staff member
We are seeing a pattern of users with the Radeon 5700 XT reporting problems.

Based on some preliminary research, it seems that many titles using DirectX 9 are affected, not just RealFlight.

We have ordered one of these cards so we can investigate further.

Obviously we can't try anything until ours arrives. If you feel like experimenting and have any success with forcing rendering to an on-chip GPU or by rolling back to earlier AMD drivers, please report back here.
 
Mine works again. Uninstalled Adrenalin and fresh install 20.4.2.

With all due respect I blame you for releasing a game in 2019 with DX9 and ONLY DX9 support when it is nearly 20 years old far more than I blame AMD for not supporting something rapidly approaching complete obsolescence.
 
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Thank you for coming back to report your findings. It gives us more data for when we investigate, and it will benefit other users as well. In fact, I will send a message to let the tech support team know.

While DirectX 9 is old, we are far from the only title still using it. On a bit of a side note, we have actually found that versions of DirectX far older than 9 are still supported in current Windows.

We're glad you are able to run RealFlight again!
 
I have installed an RX 5700 XT with the latest GPU drivers (tried 20.7.2 and 20.8.2). On my system, RF9 goes not responding soon after loading the simulation environment. An earlier GPU driver did work, but this was unstable/unusable on my system, so I went back to the latest GPU driver. Not sure who can fix the issue, AMD or Knife Edge, but it would be great to get a fix so that I can use the software.
 
RX5700XT owners should adopt a two-prong approach to this matter. You should hammer on Radeon as well as Knife Edge. It seems that they have as much of an iron in the fire. If I bought that card, I would not be happy that it does not work with older software.
 
Our card arrived and we were able to test various drivers. Results with RealFlight mirror others':
  • With the "Recommended" (by AMD) 20.4.2 driver, RealFlight 9 runs fine.
  • With the "Latest" 20.8.1 driver, RealFlight 9 hangs on the loading screen and stops responding.
The "Recommended" driver is the one that AMD designates as stable. A quick survey suggests that the "Latest" driver, while not named as a beta, seems to have issues on many titles, not just RealFlight.

We'll convey this information to Product Support so that they can more quickly help other users.
 
I too have done some research on the web and found that many of the people reporting trouble with dx9 on rx 5700 xt's are trying to run old software on new graphics. For Knife Edge to deliver brand new, latest, greatest software with old graphics is not commendable. If my findings are right, MS has not updated dx9 since 2010 which put the "new" RF9 in about the same category. Since then MS has updated to dx10, dx11, and dx12, what's happened with Knife Edge.
I need the latest Radeon drivers on my system to run the high performance graphics I need for sim racing so downgrading drivers is not an option. I've updated RF9 to 9.00.022
When I start RF9, I have win10's task manager showing on a second screen. Shortly after RF9 opens, the words "not responding" appear next to RealFlight 9 (32bit). The only way I can cancel RF9 is by using the end task button in task manager. Nothing on the RF9 screen works
Because RF9 is 32bit software, I tried to start RealFlight 9 Launcher in win10/64 "safe" mode. RF9 screen comes up and while "Initializing Height Map" bar appears, I get the following error message:
D3DERR_INVALIDCALL
file: DXEffect.cpp
line: 850 & line: 910
Hopefully this info will help you find where the problem is in Knife Edge's RF9 software
 
That is very interesting APEXer. I have just updated my 5700XT to 20.8.1. It still freezes as you describe. Just like you I do not want to revert to previous issues since I need the latest Radeon drivers to run high performance graphics. In any case I follow the policy of updating to the best at all times. Had I known that RF9 was based on such old systems I would not have purchased it.
There is nothing in the Horizon sales specs on what is required to run it that says that because of it`s aged origins it will not work with the latests technology.
And I certainly would not have purchased it had I realized how bad the support service is!
I bought it to prepare my grandson for his training at our flying club to pass his A Certificate. Can anybody recomend alternative simulator software that is good and actually works!
 
Finger-pointing isn't usually very productive, but for perspective I do think it's worth bearing in mind that yes, RealFlight 9 is based on an older version of DirectX, but we work correctly with that version of DirectX. As far as I know this problem is not happening because of a flaw in our implementation or some other bug that is unique to RealFlight; this problem is happening because AMD has broken something in a new driver that previously worked perfectly fine, and it is affecting not just RealFlight but many DirectX 9 applications. There is a one-to-many problem here, and it would be best addressed at the headwaters.

You are obviously free to have whatever policy you wish re: driver updates, but there is a reason AMD has such a thing as a "Recommended" driver and a separate "Latest" driver. As customers who are negatively impacted by changes they made in the latest version, I encourage you to let them know about how it has negatively impacted you and ask them to unbreak DX9 support in a new update--soon! Maybe they don't care (which would make me very angry as an AMD customer), or maybe it was completely accidental and they already have a fix in the works. Maybe they aren't in a rush because it's only a problem in the "Latest" driver. I can only guess. In any event, I imagine they are less likely to fix it if nobody seems bothered.

If there is something we can do on our end to work around this, we'll certainly do what we can. We have the specific card where the problem occurs now and can reproduce it, which is helpful. But it may be out of our hands, practically speaking. We can't just wave a wand and transform RealFlight 9 into a DX12 application. If it were that simple, it would have been done already. And again, compatibility has not been a problem except for this new and very narrow case.

Thank you again to everyone for reporting your results.
 
Why is it that the vast majority of Graphics cards are working fine with Real Flight 9? It seems that the finger-pointing should be at Radeon. FYI Knife Edge did release a software product for high-end computer equipment. It was a failure because most of their customers did not want to upgrade for better hardware. I am quite sure that KE is working on a future-looking product. In the meantime, they are keeping their bread and butter going. There are competing products, so go look at them or buy a compatible card.
 
I've been burned by using AMD/Radeon GPU's in the past with their awful drivers and support. I've stopped supporting AMD and refuse to use their products.
 
I found a fix that is working for me. I had Radeon 20.7.2 installed at the time I first install RF9 and RF9 failed. When I updated to 20.8.1 there was no improvement.
I downloaded ddu.exe from https://www.wagnardsoft.com/ to remove all display drivers from my system. To use ddu.exe, you must launch win10 in the "safe" mode to remove all display drivers from your system.
Once all pre-existing display drivers were removed, I installed radeon 20.5.1 and RF9 worked. To test the results, I reinstalled 20.8.1 and RF9 failed again. To get RF9 running, I installed 20.5.1 again and RF9 works. When I say works, I'm running a triple screen setup using ASUS monitors and flyinig RF9 with 5960x1080 resolution @ 144hz graphics
Hope the solution works for you.
 
APEXer that is very interesting. I wonder what it is that is different between the to releases? You are clearly running a very impressive rig. Does 20.5.1 impact upon it's performance?
 
Ryan Douglas said:
While DirectX 9 is old, we are far from the only title still using it.
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That's true. Then again, you are the only title using it exclusively as of 2019 for a game that costs as much or more that a current gen AAA release. And one of only a handful using it exclusively since 2014-ish, at any price point.
12oclockhigh said:
If I bought that card, I would not be happy that it does not work with older software.
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It doesn't come with a 15-pin VGA slot either. I don't generally build gaming PC's with backwards-compatibility in mind.
FYI Knife Edge did release a software product for high-end computer equipment. It was a failure because most of their customers did not want to upgrade for better hardware . . . There are competing products, so go look at them or buy a compatible card.
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That's rich. So the reason this game looks like something and only supports a standard from when I graduated high school is because the user base doesn't have powerhouse rigs? I can build or buy a PC that stomps this into the ground @1080p for $300.

As to RF X, which is what I'm assuming you're talking about, they shot themselves in the foot by saying the optimal system spec was a GTX 1060 / RX 480 (low-end gaming PC circa 2016) when in reality anything but a top tier i7-6700 GTX 1080 32 GB RAM struggled hard, from what I've read.

DX9 support is certainly still worthwhile for older systems. That's why I said "DX9 and ONLY DX9 support" is unacceptable in 2020. Most games that still use DX9 also have Open GL, DX11 and/or Vulkan support. Who even makes full retail price games that still run on Win 7 for that matter? But I guess it's ok because the garbage level required system spec isn't a bug, it's a feature. :ROFLMAO:

If only there were some kind of middle ground between making a game that struggles to run on this year's most bleeding edge hardware and a game that can be maxed out by the computer my grandma uses to say racist things on Facebook. A game that had, I dunno, options to optimize the experience for people on a variety of hardware. The kind of features I get from studios that are a dude in his mom's basement putting stuff up on Steam Early Access for $10.

So no, I don't blame AMD. Just like I don't blame the company who made my tower for not including a 5.25 floppy drive. The same reason I don't blame my ISP for not sending me startup CD-ROMs when I signed up for internet. I am not brand loyal to AMD and they do usually take their share of tweaking / suffer from driver woes. The value / $ is worth the lack of plug and play ease of use for me. Normally when I have issues switching to a different runtime is an option.

Find me another 2019 release that costs more than $40 that only has DX9 support. And an equally archaic UI, and so few post-release updates. Heck, that costs more than $20. It's an absolute joke and the only way they (both KE and IPACS, for that matter) get away with it is the lack of competition in this space. Look at what $100 in DCS: World, XPlane, or MSFS buys you.
 
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I just stated the facts. OK, we get it you are AGAINST Real Flight. There are other sim publishers. I own several other simulators myself. I base RF9's value on how much I use it. I use RF9 a lot. I also do not use AMD for these reasons. I have had a couple of horible experiences with AMD

My perception of this market is that it is mainly retired guys. Same as at the local flying field. Young guys are really not that interested in flying model planes and helicopters. The older generation is not likely to spend $2k on a gaming rig. The older generation is really not computer savvy. Why pour tons of money into this game space? Most kids don't care about flying. Buy an airline ticket.
 
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Eddie Brown said:
APEXer that is very interesting. I wonder what it is that is different between the to releases? You are clearly running a very impressive rig. Does 20.5.1 impact upon it's performance?
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I guess the best answer is that with 20.8.1 I had zero FPS so impact on performance is amazing. Now that I'm flying RF9 I haven't had time to test impact on race sims
 
12oclockhigh said:
I just stated the facts. OK, we get it you are AGAINST Real Flight.
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I am not "against" anybody. I use the
program quite a bit to practice aerobatics and the skills it helped develop has saved more than one RC plane. So in that sense it certainly is valuable.

Of course, I use X Plane to practice real world procedures so it's probably even more valuable by that metric. And it has a full feature set and costs $60. You can't tell me with a straight face that the current RC sims (not just RF) are objectively reasonably priced.

I'm not buying the target market argument. Of course I don't expect the target market to be running $2k gaming rigs. But a $168 refurbished Dell workstation computer on Amazon meets "optimal spec" for this game. I'd wager even most retired guys are probably running 2014+ hardware And you can build a game that takes advantage of newer hardware while still running on older machines.

As an RC pilot the software is "valuable;" but as a gamer the quality / feature set to price is objectively awful.

Maybe you're listening, KE. Some of us are under 35. In about another decade we're going to be the only target market you've got left.
 
Eddie Brown said:
APEXer that is very interesting. I wonder what it is that is different between the to releases? You are clearly running a very impressive rig. Does 20.5.1 impact upon it's performance?
Click to expand...
I did a test flight using Apprentice STS at Hanson field on my 5960x1080 triple screen setup with RF9 graphics turned up to highest. While the plane is stationary on the ground, I see 306fps in NavGuides. When the plane is flying, I see 546fps. Appears AMD rx 5700 xt is a very cost effective graphics card for superb graphic performance. It would probably take an Nvidia 2080 at twice the cost to beat this performance.

BTW: In some race sims, screen fps determines the frequency the USB is polled to update control inputs such as joy stick motion or steering wheel rotation. The higher the screen fps, the smoother the response to input motion on the USB connected device. I've found in sim racing that 60fps is the bare minimum graphic performance to drive smoothly. If the control of the airplane in your RF9 or X-Plane flight doesn't appear/feal realistic, check the graphic performance of your system. Better graphics yields better realism.
 
I can't match your knowledge level. I have recently upgraded to the AMD RX 5700 XT working with a Benq 350R curved screen. The results have been fantastic and everything works brilliantly. So in my ignorance I assumed that RF9 would be fine. So I am now left with an unusable software programme which together with my Horizon wireless dongle to connect my DX9 cost £140.

I am supprised how poor the customer support has so far been. I expected coming from the USA that this would be fantastic! I will put it down to lifes experience!
 
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