Osd And Fpv Users + General Improvements ?

[lothar2048]

Some little questions regarding simple improvements for Realflight G5.

Most of FPV users are greatly satisfied with this version which is now offering such capabilities. But some things are greatly missing for us, and most of us are using some OSD to fly away, different configurations and so on.

In order to get a valuable solution for FPV users, here is the list of improvement we should be needing to make RFG5 one of the best offer.

- OSD base. A basic one with all needed data show on the screen when camera is switched only. Best offer would be reproducing OSD's actual screens and options like Eagletree, Remzibi, Dragon OSD, Feyun Tech and Easy OSD clones...

- Ground Station capabilities, with OSD interracting like autopilot, autonomous flight, waypointing, realtime flight map and such improvements. The idea is to be able to view model camera, or switch to different screens. There are only few offers on the market, but EagleTree, Dragon OSD and Feyun Tech are offering such capabilities with google mapping.

- Range problems and Image alterations when flying. Adding such capabilities would be great. When the model would be over range, the failsafe function or autopilot could be taking care of model return to home functions. Based on already done job with Nexstar, the stabilisation system won't be a big deal ? Image could be altered due to over range or when passing behind an object.

Some general improvements :

When flying an helicopter and adding pitch, the smashplate is also crossing from side to side, which is no a real model behaviour. Most of radio gears are correcting such effect and no need to trim it constantly to get a proper hovering at any altitude or power input. So why 3D users are not using G5 but other solutions...

When flying planes, and like the Easystar which has a zero pitch underwing, the model is not supposed to climb or descend with different throtteling when he is reaching the appropriate speed. This is a very old style method, and most of modern models don't react anymore like this in reality. This was happening before as the motor or engines were not offering enough power (less than 1.0 weight to power ratio). New engines and motors are now offering over 1.0 ratio, so it is now an option to take it in consideration, and mostly for fixed wings with zero pitch undersurface would thank you ;-).

I don't know where you are buying your batteries, but you should be considering their overestimated lifetime. The same for power engines and fuel consumption. A slider button for battery quality or fuel consumption rate for any model could be a usefull simple improvement.

Two specific maps would also be great :
- One for FPV users with two airports and different waypointings (Auto circle, circuits, airport to airport, etc.).
- One for Airplane and helicopter users with obstacles. This is done in asia, and there are many competitions for slow fliers and hellicopter users thought specific flying circuits. This is a very good training improvement when obstacles are very straight and dedicated to a plane or helicopter size.

I also noticed this was a terrific problem to switch between HH and normal mode for helicopter users. Most of scale models are using classical curving for the rudder, and they are alway set to Heading Hold, which is an awfull crime i think. As the procedure is quite difficult to change this, i'm not flying scale helicopters anymore.

This would be great to switch back your mind and use the 3 states button to offer :
- State One, Normal Mode 50%.
- State Two, HH 50%
- State Tree, HH 65%.


Bug tracking : In french language, when you are trying to use accentuated caracters in model edition, you are getting an error when trying to save it with accentuated caracters. But when you are switching to this language from default english, this is already offered by the application. You should be correcting this bug...

ASL altitude is not showing the correct altitude in many maps. As this is a sea level reference, this is the absolute altutide i think ? but when you are trying with sea mapps, altitude is not correctly set as well. So i think, you have a problem with this. How can we set it to Zero when flying in FPV mode ?

Also, any model have an on top max altitude. Can you manage to add this parameter for further improvements ?


So please, let us know what you think. Any comments are welcome.

Kind Regards.

Francois.

 

[mwilson914]

Great thread idea. I would love for Aaron Shell to come here and contribute to a thread like this. He is a major player in the FPV part of this hobby for those that don't know him. He actually has an article in the latest RC Heli mag in which he is using G3.5 for his training. I have his email somewhere so I might write to him about this.

 

[12oclockhigh]

Too many concepts to grasp in one post. I will pick two.

The EasyStar is a swap pages plane, not created by the software developers. Flexibility is both an incredible strength and weakness of the Real Flight product. It allows the creation of any aircraft, but relies on the capabilities of the designer. All designers are not created equal... most are very good. If you have a problem with a particular plane, take it up with the author or create your own Aircraft Variant AV File.


Heli swash plate??? I do not understand your comment. Also it would help if you mentioned a specific aircraft as I do not see swash plate issues. It could be related to the EasyStar comment above.

 

[Maj. Numbskully]

Auto pilot ?......Really?

 

[opjose]

When flying planes, and like the Easystar which has a zero pitch underwing, the model is not supposed to climb or descend with different throtteling when he is reaching the appropriate speed. This is a very old style method, and most of modern models don't react anymore like this in reality. This was happening before as the motor or engines were not offering enough power (less than 1.0 weight to power ratio). New engines and motors are now offering over 1.0 ratio, so it is now an option to take it in consideration, and mostly for fixed wings with zero pitch undersurface would thank you ;-).

WRONG!

This has - NOTHING - to do with anything being an "old style method" and has everything to do with wing type, wing incidence and plane design.

I have several flat bottom airfoil large electrics, like a Piper Archer, that LOVE to climb on throttle, as do most trainer planes.

This design is used on modern planes and is by choice.

---

You also can merely go into the physics editor and adjust the plane to make this not happen...

 

[12oclockhigh]

I also noticed this was a terrific problem to switch between HH and normal mode for helicopter users. Most of scale models are using classical curving for the rudder, and they are alway set to Heading Hold, which is an awfull crime i think. As the procedure is quite difficult to change this, i'm not flying scale helicopters anymore.

This would be great to switch back your mind and use the 3 states button to offer :
- State One, Normal Mode 50%.
- State Two, HH 50%
- State Tree, HH 65%.

There is no terrific problem switching from HH to rate mode (not normal). Again it is the designer's option which features to incorporate into a given model... as far as I am concerned Heading Hold is the only mode I fly. With real birds I toggle heading/rate modes to center the tail blades before takeoff and never switch to rate mode. Many people do not even know about rate mode flying. There is one heli that I know of here that simulates rate mode... I leave you to use the search engine to find the bird. What does this issue have to do with "flying scale" helicopters? As to using the flight mode switch to select gyro gain rates... Insanity would be a word that pops to mind. I would use the Ch8 rotary dial to switch between rate and HH. Below certain point would be rate, above heading... but the actual gain percentage would not change. I never adjust the gyro HH gain unless the tail is not stable.

 

[Boof69]

As with most aircraft altitude should be a function of the throttle and not the elevator.

 

[mwilson914]

I think I skimmed through the original post too quickly the first time around. I'm just really interested in the training possibilities for FPV flying. I've seen a lot of these systems on the market have HUDs that show you all the critical info as a FPV pilot. Aaron Shell would be the best example of showing anyone how to setup and use a FPV system.

http://www.youtube.com/user/aaronredbaron#p/u/16/X9FQ2AoqJWE

I might be on the ground somewhere flying my PZ SU-26 Sukhoi in his video, but good luck picking me out. I got to see his setup and talk with him about it. It's an amazing way of doing RC.

Check out Aaron's channel for more cool videos like that. I'd like to see more of this type of stuff in the sim because someday I plan on putting together a FPV system of my own.

 

[12oclockhigh]

I have to admit that I would like some FPV features too. I am in the process of setting up a multiplex twinstar with cameras on the nose. Having the heads up tape displays would be really cool.

Could RFG78 then be considered weapons training software??

 

[lothar2048]

Too many concepts to grasp in one post. I will pick two.

The EasyStar is a swap pages plane, not created by the software developers. Flexibility is both an incredible strength and weakness of the Real Flight product. It allows the creation of any aircraft, but relies on the capabilities of the designer. All designers are not created equal... most are very good. If you have a problem with a particular plane, take it up with the author or create your own Aircraft Variant AV File.


Heli swash plate??? I do not understand your comment. Also it would help if you mentioned a specific aircraft as I do not see swash plate issues. It could be related to the EasyStar comment above.

I'm not talking about the easy start but any model. Flying FPV with Easy star is far away from my own conception of stable flight. I'd better use larger wingspan planes which are much more stable inflight. I also use flight stabilisation, and all this needs some place to be set in. So why i've choosed a skywalker which have plenty rooms for this purpose.

Swash plate for heli is the little thing wich helps you to control the pitch and angle of the heli. But as you reference it to a plane, not sure that we are talking about the same ?

Creating a variant plane wouldn't help because all those problems are program engine troubles. They can't be added or simulated if not taken in charge by the main programming engine.

Too many totanka's... I can see clearly now ! o-)

 

[lothar2048]

WRONG!

This has - NOTHING - to do with anything being an "old style method" and has everything to do with wing type, wing incidence and plane design.

I have several flat bottom airfoil large electrics, like a Piper Archer, that LOVE to climb on throttle, as do most trainer planes.

This design is used on modern planes and is by choice.

---

You also can merely go into the physics editor and adjust the plane to make this not happen...

This is due to Naca profile and simple aernonautic rules. The plane will climb or not if the profile is or not an heavy lift one. Flat wing planes won't, but in G5.5 do. All delta wings and jets flat profiles shoudn't, but they do. What can you say about this ?

 

[lothar2048]

There is no terrific problem switching from HH to rate mode (not normal). Again it is the designer's option which features to incorporate into a given model... as far as I am concerned Heading Hold is the only mode I fly. With real birds I toggle heading/rate modes to center the tail blades before takeoff and never switch to rate mode. Many people do not even know about rate mode flying. There is one heli that I know of here that simulates rate mode... I leave you to use the search engine to find the bird. What does this issue have to do with "flying scale" helicopters? As to using the flight mode switch to select gyro gain rates... Insanity would be a word that pops to mind. I would use the Ch8 rotary dial to switch between rate and HH. Below certain point would be rate, above heading... but the actual gain percentage would not change. I never adjust the gyro HH gain unless the tail is not stable.

When sport flying, you are using HH ?

 

[Junkboy999]

This thread is going the same way as the one titled “ why do all RealFlight planes nose drop while inverted “. That user was in the same mind of thinking about flight physics as Lothar2048. He is only thinking about the wing. How did he put it? “ This is due to Naca profile and simple aernonautic rules “.

Every one is so focused on the wing and it’s profile that they forget about the TRUE RULER of the SKYs. Gravity. It all ways wins in the end. This is the saying my flight instructor use to say at the aero club at RAF Mildenhall where I started my ground school for my pilots licence.

Ok so bear with me as I build a plane in your imagantion. Lets make a straight stick fuselage and a 100% symmetrical wing and a flat wood tail. This plane has a Magic engine that pull the plane straight forward with out any right toque or down thrust because it is magic. This Magic plane should fly as straight right side up and inverted. So we hand launch it. It flys “ Straight as an arrow” so the saying goes. But wait!! What is happening? it is noseing over and hits the ground engine first. What went wrong? Gravity. It all ways wins in the end.

Now let fix this problem. To make the plane fly we needed to add a control surface on its tail. Lets call then Elevators. Every one know about elevators, Up is up and down is down Right. but if the plane is just setting on the ground and I push up it does not go up, and the same with down. We should call these things Magic Air Deflectors that push the tail up or down to change the attack incidence of the main lifting body to the flow of air moving over them. Whowwww that is a mouth full. But truly that is what they do. Ok I launch the plane now. Again it flyes straight for a few seconds and then the nose starts dropping. This time I’m ready for it. I move the control surface and the plane responds and levels out. I release my pressure off the elevator stick and the plane starts dropping again. Ok I see so I will have to holed the stick back a bit to fly level. Ok I can do that. Now it is time for a high speed flyby. I gun the throttle of the magic engine, ( again no torque or thrust produces for this example ) the plane responds with a increase of speed as it flys down the runway for my high speed pass. But wait. It is climbing. This should not happen. I’m holding the same and pressure position on the elevator stick as I was a minute ago. This wing is 100% symmetrical wing and in theory should not be producing any lift. I guess the faster I go the less control surface deflection I will require to defeat gravity and stay in a level flight. If only there was a way to TRIM the plane for level flight for the speed that I would like to operator the plane. WOW I just had a thought!!! is that way all planes in real life have a Trim able horizontal stab, a trim tab located on the elevator’s control, or a trim able flying tail. That probably what those little bottoms on my RC controller due too.

After having fun typing that, here is what I sad. It is the speed of air over the wings in conjunction with the wings attack angle to that air that caused the plane to fly. In turn the faster the air speed over the wings the greater the lift. The greater the attack angle the greater the lift. Most plane have a Negative incidence built in to the horizontal tail to help over come gravity. This Negative incidence acts as a control surface input , so the faster you go you need to trim the plane to over compensate for the negative setting.

As for you comment about “ All delta wings and jets flat profiles shoudn't, but they do. What can you say about this ? “ All planes are designed to operate in a speed range due to the incidence of the wings and the tail surface. if you fly in the middle of that speed range and the plane is flying level, any change in speed will cause a lift of a drop. As the plane gets lighter because it is getting low on gas it will now climb even if your at the speed you want to fly at and the trim setting to make it level.

We see these thread from time to time and it just make you laugh. Remember the throttle is a variable setting it is not full on and full off. I trim my classic high wing model to fly level at 75% throttle setting and my jets level at 90%. You can trim yours to fly level at any throttle setting you like by changing the incidence on the Horz Stab. Just don’t change the CG to level the model that just adds in more problems.

I recommend that you learn how to fly the models more like a scale flyer and less as a “ let see how Fast I can go” weekend warrior. You will have more fun.

 

[12oclockhigh]

I certainly do know what a swash plate is... I own 5 helis 450 and above. I do not understand your swash plate comments... do you??

You can create your own engine in Real Flight by copying the engine that most closely resembles what you want and renaming it. I happen to think that electric motors are well represented in Real Flight.

The Easy Star and other foamies are often used as camera platforms and are rather stable. I use a Multiplex Twinstar as a FPV platform. Stable?? I think the pilot has a lot to do with that!

I'm not talking about the easy start but any model. Flying FPV with Easy star is far away from my own conception of stable flight. I'd better use larger wingspan planes which are much more stable inflight. I also use flight stabilisation, and all this needs some place to be set in. So why i've choosed a skywalker which have plenty rooms for this purpose.

Swash plate for heli is the little thing wich helps you to control the pitch and angle of the heli. But as you reference it to a plane, not sure that we are talking about the same ?

Creating a variant plane wouldn't help because all those problems are program engine troubles. They can't be added or simulated if not taken in charge by the main programming engine.

Too many totanka's... I can see clearly now ! o-)

 

[12oclockhigh]

Absolutely! 100% of the time. Simulator and Real World. There is only one Real Flight heli that I know of that even has rate mode simulated.

Are you just here trying to make trouble? It would seem so. With only 4 posts you seem to be trying to hit every hot button and are showing not much understanding for a FPV pilot.

When sport flying, you are using HH ?

 

[opjose]

This is due to Naca profile and simple aernonautic rules. The plane will climb or not if the profile is or not an heavy lift one. Flat wing planes won't, but in G5.5 do. All delta wings and jets flat profiles shoudn't, but they do. What can you say about this ?

I already said what you need to do and know....

"This has - NOTHING - to do with anything being an "old style method" and has everything to do with wing type, wing incidence and plane design.

I have several flat bottom airfoil large electrics, like a Piper Archer, that LOVE to climb on throttle, as do most trainer planes.

This design is used on modern planes and is by choice."

If you don't like the behaviour of a model, just change it!

However don't assume that because a model behaves differently than you expect, that "it is based upon an old design" or is incorrect. You are mistaken in your presumption and statement.

 

[lothar2048]

True and Untrue

This thread is going the same way as the one titled “ why do all RealFlight planes nose drop while inverted “. That user was in the same mind of thinking about flight physics as Lothar2048. He is only thinking about the wing. How did he put it? “ This is due to Naca profile and simple aernonautic rules “.

Every one is so focused on the wing and it’s profile that they forget about the TRUE RULER of the SKYs. Gravity. It all ways wins in the end. This is the saying my flight instructor use to say at the aero club at RAF Mildenhall where I started my ground school for my pilots licence.

Ok so bear with me as I build a plane in your imagantion. Lets make a straight stick fuselage and a 100% symmetrical wing and a flat wood tail. This plane has a Magic engine that pull the plane straight forward with out any right toque or down thrust because it is magic. This Magic plane should fly as straight right side up and inverted. So we hand launch it. It flys “ Straight as an arrow” so the saying goes. But wait!! What is happening? it is noseing over and hits the ground engine first. What went wrong? Gravity. It all ways wins in the end.

Now let fix this problem. To make the plane fly we needed to add a control surface on its tail. Lets call then Elevators. Every one know about elevators, Up is up and down is down Right. but if the plane is just setting on the ground and I push up it does not go up, and the same with down. We should call these things Magic Air Deflectors that push the tail up or down to change the attack incidence of the main lifting body to the flow of air moving over them. Whowwww that is a mouth full. But truly that is what they do. Ok I launch the plane now. Again it flyes straight for a few seconds and then the nose starts dropping. This time I’m ready for it. I move the control surface and the plane responds and levels out. I release my pressure off the elevator stick and the plane starts dropping again. Ok I see so I will have to holed the stick back a bit to fly level. Ok I can do that. Now it is time for a high speed flyby. I gun the throttle of the magic engine, ( again no torque or thrust produces for this example ) the plane responds with a increase of speed as it flys down the runway for my high speed pass. But wait. It is climbing. This should not happen. I’m holding the same and pressure position on the elevator stick as I was a minute ago. This wing is 100% symmetrical wing and in theory should not be producing any lift. I guess the faster I go the less control surface deflection I will require to defeat gravity and stay in a level flight. If only there was a way to TRIM the plane for level flight for the speed that I would like to operator the plane. WOW I just had a thought!!! is that way all planes in real life have a Trim able horizontal stab, a trim tab located on the elevator’s control, or a trim able flying tail. That probably what those little bottoms on my RC controller due too.

After having fun typing that, here is what I sad. It is the speed of air over the wings in conjunction with the wings attack angle to that air that caused the plane to fly. In turn the faster the air speed over the wings the greater the lift. The greater the attack angle the greater the lift. Most plane have a Negative incidence built in to the horizontal tail to help over come gravity. This Negative incidence acts as a control surface input , so the faster you go you need to trim the plane to over compensate for the negative setting.

As for you comment about “ All delta wings and jets flat profiles shoudn't, but they do. What can you say about this ? “ All planes are designed to operate in a speed range due to the incidence of the wings and the tail surface. if you fly in the middle of that speed range and the plane is flying level, any change in speed will cause a lift of a drop. As the plane gets lighter because it is getting low on gas it will now climb even if your at the speed you want to fly at and the trim setting to make it level.

We see these thread from time to time and it just make you laugh. Remember the throttle is a variable setting it is not full on and full off. I trim my classic high wing model to fly level at 75% throttle setting and my jets level at 90%. You can trim yours to fly level at any throttle setting you like by changing the incidence on the Horz Stab. Just don’t change the CG to level the model that just adds in more problems.

I recommend that you learn how to fly the models more like a scale flyer and less as a “ let see how Fast I can go” weekend warrior. You will have more fun.

I agree with your demonstration instead you don't know that inverted flight physics could be equally equilibrated in an RC plane in both up and down. That's why i'm doing with all my flatouts and also all my 3D planes as this is a flight condition you should know...

Real life planes are not specially designed for inverted flight and specially high wings. You need inverted flight batteries, inverted pumps and so on. Does your flight instructor ever flew on a jet before ? Did he ever flew a CAP 232 ? Does RC means like the real thing or can it be improved in such ways for safety as good RC builders do ?

I was not talking about all planes and helies but noticed that flight caracteristics were not respected on most planes and helies, but i agree this is not a general offense...

Why are you explaining things with irony and hate ? Do you have a problem in your life ?

 

[lothar2048]

So let's talk about FPV and flying....

Absolutely! 100% of the time. Simulator and Real World. There is only one Real Flight heli that I know of that even has rate mode simulated.

Are you just here trying to make trouble? It would seem so. With only 4 posts you seem to be trying to hit every hot button and are showing not much understanding for a FPV pilot.

Can you tell me what is your problem and what your comment helps to find an issue with this discussion ? Talking frankly is a crime ? Having different point of view is an insult ? If you don't defend your point of view in another way than insulting the other one, how can you expect some respect in further answers ?

Can you consider that i'm french and doing lots of efforts to talk the same language as your. So if i'm not expressing well myslef, just let me know. But why so much aggressivity on such forum ?

Can you also tell us what kind of FPV experience you do have and what kind of stuff you are using for ? This would be a first step for understanding and having some help.

My setup is the following

NTM 3536A 910 KV motor.
10X7 tribadle Pusher Master Airscrew Prop.
Skywalker Airframe with Big Bump Landing Gear and carbon renforced tail and wings.
HK 60 amp ESC with 5A Bec (Clone of Castel Creations One).
D-MG16 1,9kg Servos (Hitec Clones)
FrSky Telemetry 8ch Receiver.
CE Easy OSD modified to handle 100 amps.
TeleflyOSD and MyFlyDream Tracker Fully Automated with Graphical Ground Station.
5.8 ghz 200mw (25mw per band) TX and RX with 5.8 ghz 23db Patch Antenna + Yaggi antenna combined (Diversity will only help if you have 2 TX placed in a different location or if you are using Dual Polarization Antennas).
4S 5000ma 20C battery for RC and 2200 20C battery for OSD, tracker and camera.
Sony HAD II 800x600 camera with pan and tilt.
Fixed GoPro Hero with updated firmware on BetaGel for having High quality videos without waving.
Video Switch for Sony and GOpro inflight switching.
High Definition Headplay Googles.
FY20A flight stabilizer.

With this setup, i can fly more than half an our with a very stable flight.

I have tested several stuff to this point and this is the best solution you can have for a low pricing, wich was the goal for building FPV schools.

All the stuff tested so far :

Eaglettree, RVOSD, Remzibi, EZOSD, CE OSD, DragonOSD, FY Products.
Twinstar, Easystar (ailerons one), Easy Glider, Fox Glider (Best one but little rooming) Skywalker (best platform with a lot of room) and HK Eagle FPV clone (too rigid).
Axi motors (Best one but very expensive). Turnigy motors, Feigao Motors. NTM motors.
CC ESC (Best one but very expensive).
Arch Wood Triblade Props. APC props. Chinese Props. MA props.
Fatshark solution including tracker and OSD (Too low def and range good for sport FPV not for AP).
EagleEyes Ground Station. EZ ground Station. MFD Ground Station.

I've also built 1S FPV micro planes for indoor flying with Flytron products and a 450 with AP landing Gear and a heavy playload Quadricopter (Able to lift up to 3Kg camera for 5/6 minutes flight and with 9°OF gyrostabilization, barometric altitude hold,magnetic sensors and so on)...

I'm contributing in translating AeroSimRc FPV simulator in french and have good relationships with the developper sor far.

Just tell me if you want some more pictures ;-)

 

[Chris McVey]

This is off subject. Keep this related to Real Flight or I will be forced to close this thread.

Thanks,
Chris McVey

 

[lothar2048]

What is Off Subject ?

This is off subject. Keep this related to Real Flight or I will be forced to close this thread.

Thanks,
Chris McVey

Dear Chris McVey

Do i'm wrong or the thread title i created was : "Osd And Fpv Users + General Improvements ?"

What is off subject ? Talking about FPV stuff relative to the first post i personnaly made and related to OSD improvement and FPV caracteristics needed in Realflight, All based on my experience of it, experienced users and FPV builders, Electronic, avionics, aviation and RF engeneers, FPV community and market products tests and reviews ?

Everyone here is just turning mad or what ? I think you can close or destroy the thread, shred my account to dust and forgive me forever. I bought Realflight because i thought this was a nice product. I think i was wrong... I will keep my PhoenixRC for physics, and AeroSim RC for FPV. you don't want me, no matter with that, i don't want you too now...

Anyone here wants a mode 1 used box of Realflight G5 ? Let me know, it's on sale...