Swap page uploads and moderation

Ryan Douglas

Administrator
Staff member
Strap in, this will be a long post.

It has come to my attention that there is a recent increase in people uploading content to the swap pages that they did not create. I suppose it's been a long time since we talked about how this works. Mostly people just "get it" by learning from everything that is already in place. Occasionally they don't and someone needs to explain. (Sometimes language is a barrier here.) Every once in a while someone simply doesn't care about following the rules, but that is rare.

To put it very succinctly, you should not upload content that you did not create (unless the original creator gives you permission).

The swap pages and RealFlight custom content system are designed to allow derivative works based on someone else's content. For example, let's say User A creates a brand new model (including 3D visual model, physics setup, and color scheme) and uploads it to the swap pages as an EA (Entire Aircraft). Other users can download that and enjoy it.

Now let's say User B is a big fan of the visuals in that EA but would prefer to tweak something about the physics setup. Maybe it's the dimensions, maybe it's the power, maybe it's the control throws, or the CG, or the smoke, or the weight, or... After User B has saved their changes in the editor, they can export that as an AV (Aircraft Variant). If they upload it to the swap pages to share with other users, it will automatically be linked to the original EA. Now anyone who downloads the EA will get the original work, and they can also download the AV and have that, too. User A gets credit for their original creation, and User B gets credit for their work on the physics setup they did, and the line between the two is clear.

Now let's say User C comes along and loves everything about User A's EA and wants to contribute a unique color scheme of their own. They can create that and export & upload it to the swap pages as a CS (Color Scheme). Like the AV, it will be automatically linked to the original EA. User A gets credit for their original creation, and User C gets credit for their own unique creation, and the two are separated correctly on the swap pages, meaning it's clear who did what.

That is how it is all supposed to work. So far, so good.

The problem comes in when someone downloads someone else's work, then reexports it and uploads it as their own.

This can take different forms. For example, User D might download User B's AV and then reupload it as a "new" AV with no changes. (Or they might change one tiny thing and upload it. That gets into more of a gray area; it would be good form to reference and credit the original AV and state what User D changed compared to it.)

Another example, and this is probably the most common type, would be if User E downloads User A's EA and makes some physics or color scheme changes. Instead of uploading an AV or CS encapsulating just their own work, they export and reupload the whole thing as as new EA.

These are examples of what not to do.

I think occasionally an EA is seen as a way of tying modified physics and colorschemes together in a single package. I can see the appeal, but that is an incorrect use of the EA type. You need to upload them as a separate AV & CS. Feel free to describe your "recommended setup" and cross-link between them in the descriptions if you really want people to experience them together.

So, what happens when somebody breaks these rules? Nothing--unless you report it.

We rely on user reports to catch these kinds of things. We can't police the swap pages all day long. And we haven't memorized every single thing that every single person has ever uploaded. We need you to report problems if they occur, because you as the content creators are uniquely situated to detect and identify them.

If you report someone uploading work that isn't theirs, please include a link to the original work so that we can see it for ourselves! We need some context and back story to figure out what's happening.

Also, please be patient. This isn't Domino's Pizza. There is no "30 minutes or it's free" response time guarantee. Sure, it doesn't feel good to see someone else upload your work as their own. But it's the long run that really matters here.

I'm going to peel back the curtain just a tiny bit and give you a glimpse behind the scenes.

I'm not on the forums all day. I'm not even on the forums every day. Trust me, you want it that way. If I spent all day here, I wouldn't be doing my part to help produce the actual software which is the reason these forums even exist.

Also worth noting: People report all kinds of things for all kinds of reasons, including content that didn't load right for them and even stuff they don't think flies correctly.

Sometimes people report something because they like it.

The point is, as much as you might sometimes wish it worked this way, we don't see a report and automatically go "Oh shoot, I need to drop everything and take action!!!" We're usually in the middle of something else, and are conditioned (rightly) to not treat every single thing as a red alert. Also, consider the fact that if I fly in to address a single issue, people who see that will automatically wonder why I didn't respond to any of the other 16 things they wish I would. Occasionally, that can start to build up a case in their mind for whatever nefarious motivations they imagine drive me.

I am not bemoaning my situation. I'm just trying to help you to understand a little better how it works on this side. I enjoy coming here to interact with all of you (well, mostly...), both to help users get more out of the software and just for fun. I would enjoy doing it more, but that's not how the sausage gets made.

So, if there is an ongoing issue, continue to report it--as appropriate. (Reporting it every hour would not count as appropriate. ;)) If nothing has happened after a while, instead of petulantly uploading inappropriate/offensive content to the swap pages, try posting about it and/or sending me a direct message. It's possible a report will have fallen through the cracks, or that we just haven't gotten to it yet. Regardless, the solution is to continue trying to raise the issue, not to create new problems. As I said above, please be patient.

I won't be surprised if there are a spate of new reports after this post. I will do my best to address them (though bear in mind we're headed into a weekend). And as I also alluded to above, usually a little bit of user education goes a long way. In these situations I contact the person who has misstepped and that typically does the trick.

Thanks for listening and hopefully understanding.
 
I have always found it to be easy to have this exact issue resolved with contacting you. Usually faster then I expected. The problem no one can solve is that after every new EA upload there is a surge of "junk" uploads. such as lazy color schemes or almost unedited physics. My tin foil hat side says it's competing flight sim employees or fanboys. Never the less it always buries the new EA's from the swaps landing page. I know you can filter for new EA's but that landing page is where everyone starts. Such is life I guess.
 
This has been a massive problem lately and its increasingly annoying as Boof has pointed out, a lot has been "junk". Thrown together copy and paste schemes that litter the swaps.
 
Wish there was a way to sticky this post to the top of the new post page. If the new posts don’t keep coming it’ll quickly get shuffled down the list and likely looked over by the masses that need to see it.
 
Thanks for this. I wanted to say something but hadn't about EA's being posted instead of an AV like it should. I haven't posted a Cessna 206 I did because it's an EA and was based on the Cessna 172D somebody else created originally.
 
I may get spanked for this, but I'll throw it out for discussion.
When posting a file, couldn't a questions be added to the process such as:
"Is this an original design or variation of another persons work."
That would give a heads-up to the poster that there is a difference. Depending on the answer, add the appropriate extension. It seems there is no difference in the file structure, just the extension difference that creates confusion.
 
For newer models, it would be great to be able to password protect them. RF would give the creator the option to add a password when exporting their new EA to upload it to the swaps. That password would be included in the rfx file somehow and before a new EA could be exported using that particular 3D model, that specific password would have to be entered. I get that it wouldn’t save anything before that particular version of RF, but would be a start. I’m no computer coding whiz, but if RF can check the date on my computer, surely it can check for a password. ?‍♂️
 
I see a problem, if the original author forgets the password. If he wanted to delete it for some reason.
 
I see a problem, if the original author forgets the password. If he wanted to delete it for some reason.
What if you forget your password here? You have the option to have a reset link sent to your email. I would think it could be setup just like any other password protected account. Maybe even have a way to link all your creations to one account even.
 
I see a problem, if the original author forgets the password. If he wanted to delete it for some reason.
I haven`t looked lately, but I`ve noticed a delete option on my files, CS`s,AV`s and 1 EA that I`ve put on the swaps, I imagine I`m the only one that can see that option, being the creator/author. I don`t if it`s that way now..?? But it would seem keeping that way would eliminate any need for a password for THAT particular purpose of deleting. To me it`s a simple matter of anyone creating a CS,AV or EA knowing what designation to assign to it when uploading to the swaps, which Ryan has clearly addressed, we all just have to hope the offender/s have read it. BUT even everyone got THAT right, it wouldn`t eliminate the amount of garbage being dumped on the swaps lately. It would seem to me that some sort of limit style process should be implemented for uploads to the swaps to take care of that particular issue. Naming of EA`s, CS`s and AV`s are a separate issue.
 
Last edited:
How about simply posting the "Rules" automatically when someone goes to upload a file?
When new people participate, they will not necessarily read this post first before adding a file. How would they know the rules. EA or entire aircraft is a little ambiguous.
 
How about simply posting the "Rules" automatically when someone goes to upload a file?
When new people participate, they will not necessarily read this post first before adding a file. How would they know the rules. EA or entire aircraft is a little ambiguous.
How many times you scroll down to the bottom of a page and click I agree to the terms and conditions without actually reading them?
 
How many times you scroll down to the bottom of a page and click I agree to the terms and conditions without actually reading them?
Not at the bottom of the screen, but a pop-up window in the middle of the screen surrounded in a frame. At least something more than nothing as we have now. But I will go with whatever Ryan Douglas decides, because he would need to implement whatever. Just throwing out suggestions, and going with simple solutions.

It's not a real big problem with me I can download an item, try it, or if I already have it, cancel the download.
As for limiting the downloads, I wouldn't like to see the swap pages have an elitist angle to it, it's an open/public forum. All should be able to post whatever, how it's managed and sorted is up to Ryan.
Once this lockdown is over, the post will most likely go back to "normal".
By the way, I never read the terms and conditions … unless it's short and "In My Face" !!!
 
Last edited:
Not at the bottom of the screen, but a pop-up window in the middle of the screen surrounded in a frame. At least something more than nothing as we have now. But I will go with whatever Ryan Douglas decides, because he would need to implement whatever. Just throwing out suggestions, and going with simple solutions.

It's not a real big problem with me I can download an item, try it, or if I already have it, cancel the download.
As for limiting the downloads, I wouldn't like to see the swap pages have an elitist angle to it, it's an open/public forum. All should be able to post whatever, how it's managed and sorted is up to Ryan.
Once this lockdown is over, the post will most likely go back to "normal".
By the way, I never read the terms and conditions … unless it's short and "In My Face" !!!
The wild posting after a new EA is posted is a long time known issue unrelated to the quarantine. It's not elitist in my opinion. I agree anyone should be able to post what they wish but a daily upload limit would not be an issue to a serious contributor. It would go a long way to slowing down the garbage uploads.

As to uploading an EA that doesn't belong to you, I think that if a unique number was assigned to a model when it is imported to realflight that stuck with that model once exported as .rfx and subsequently uploaded. The swaps page could be programmed to use this number as a unique identifier and check for any matching numbers and deny a new upload with a popup explaining that they are not authorized to do so.
 
Last edited:
Your intentions are good and will stop most. It will not stop a determined hacker. Given enough time any system will be cracked and the results published. Give me a bit, I will find it. I assure you of that. I have no burning desire to disrupt this. Maybe just immediately show the new EAs and you have to look for the other filetypes
 
Boof69 Said:
"As to uploading an EA that doesn't belong to you"
Yes that is the problem … EA only means Entire Aircraft not original design and everyone is not on the same page as to it's real intent … if there was any real intent to start with. It's become a problem because creative people are designing planes that maybe RF never imagined would happen at the degree it has. If so, they may have setup the file structure accordingly.
Now they have a decision to make … how to remedy the situation. New file structure or education/notification of the designers wishes. That is what we are conversing about … giving our opinions … in hopes that the RF designers come up with a solution … I'm not fighting anyone's opinion … just stating mine. Everyone has one … No???
As you stated, it's been a
"long time known issue" with no solution attempted.
I didn't mean to imply that wanting an "EA" to be only for "Original Designs" is elitist, I meant that keeping people from posting many of their CS's and AV's may tend to create the impression that the forum was becoming elitist.
It's not my call on how to solve these "long time known issues" … I read the post from Ryan, ask a couple of questions, and as I stated, thought I may get a spanking … now we will see if there is a solution or we carry on as usual, which is OK with me.
 
Back
Top