Advice learning to torque roll

[Sammy Yousef]

Okay this is driving me nuts, and I'm not getting anywhere. I can get a plane to start to torque roll, but it falls out in just under 360 and I can't do it reliably yet.

The Virtual Instructor is useful in giving an idea of what the maneuver looks like and what the inputs are, but doesn't go into the learning aspect terribly deeply.

My questions:

1) What is/are the best stock G3 (including addons) planes to use. I've been trying with the Extra 330 (some success starting the roll), the Ultimate Biplane (some success starting the roll) and the Yak (almost no success)

2) Should I be using hi or low rates. Articles I've come across on the web have suggested low rates.

3) What should I be doing to build up my technique? I'm doing the fly away/fly towards and control plane with rudder thing. I'm also making the plane hesitate flying veritically and watching which way it comes out.

4) What should I be doing to correct if it's about to fall out after spinning between 270 and 360 degrees. Just adding power doesn't seem to help. I can make and supply a recording if it would help.

I know I'm not the only one that's had trouble learning to torque roll. I'm particularly looking for advice from those of you who've had trouble initially and overcome it. I expect to put in lots of practice so that's not the issue. The issue is getting it at all right in the first place.

Here are the articles I've come across so far:
http://www.modelaircraft.org/0105_t-roll.asp
http://www.modelaircraft.org/0105_pdf.pdf
http://h1072147.hobbyshopnow.com/products/Article.asp?file=1044-ART.xml

Thanks in advance.

Sammy

 

[opjose]

Ok, let me clue you in on a little secret....

Go into the plane editor.

Find the engine settings, and INCREASE the "Lateral Prop" factor to say 8.0

Save the plane under a different name.

Now the plane will torque roll all by itself.

Start with this until you learn how to set the plane into a torque roll, etc.

Then start backing the value down and continue practicing.

By the time you can torque roll the plane with a setting of 2.0, you'll be able to do it on the real thing. G3 is a bit twitchier than a the real thing.

I believe that this is not a fault of the modeling, but the lack of feedback that we would get when working with a real plane.

 

[opjose]

BTW: I've also posted planes with Gyro's that will torque roll by themselves when you flip a switch.

These are useful for learning entry and exits.

 

[Sammy Yousef]

Thanks opjose, I'll give that a go.

I'm still on version .410 and switch up to .430 when I want to install a plane, then back to .410. I'd be very interested in what you think regarding whether .430 is more accurate compared to the real thing. G3 is as close to the real thing as I can get for now, so I want it to be as real as possible.

Sammy

 

[Cappy69]

The key is TONS of practice...took me a long time to get it. Now it's like riding a bike. I end the maneuver when I want to end it...not when the plane does. The hardest thing to overcome is getting the inputs correct while the plane is rotating on it's axis. You also have to watch what the plane is doing and almost anticipate what it is going to do so you can be on the corrections instantly. If you wait for the plane to flop out...it's too late. What helped me a ton was to picture myself in the cockpit while I'm flying...so no matter what the orientation is, I'm still giving correct inputs. Seems a bit tough at first...but after a while it becomes second nature. Don't worry....you'll eventually get it. It's a hard maneuver to master.....but once you do....you'll find yourself doing it lower and longer....with the sim and in real life. Just don't get discouraged...you'll get it


Cap

 

[Sammy Yousef]

(Edits after further experimentation in red)

Okay this seems to be working a treat.

The setting is in Airframe->Fuselage->Engine Lateral Drag Factor. Advanced settings needs to be ticked in the options.

Advanced settings option isn't available in the aircraft editor (it doesn't appear) if I launch from the launcher. However, if I launch G3 directly it is. The launcher giving me a popup warning that it's built for a later version of G3, so this may have to do with the fact that I've upgraded to .430 then downgraded back to .410

I'm now trying to practice with a drag factor of 4.0. As stated if set to 8.0 it does just torque roll all on its own. This is true on the Ultimate Biplane. Even with a factor of 10.0, the Extra 330S does require some correction to torque roll, but not much. i.e. I can do it quite easily.

This has given me another idea. I recall reading another post about slowing down or speeding up time. I might try slowing things down to see where I'm going wrong and bringing the speed back up as well. If you do this unfortunately you end up having to anticipate what the plane's going to do twice as long in advance. I'm going to keep fiddling but I'd say this trick isn't going to help.

Thanks for getting me past a very frustrating roadblock. The simulator to the rescue. Now all I need do is put in hours of practice.

Sammy

Ok, let me clue you in on a little secret....

Go into the plane editor.

Find the engine settings, and INCREASE the "Lateral Prop" factor to say 8.0

Save the plane under a different name.

Now the plane will torque roll all by itself.

Start with this until you learn how to set the plane into a torque roll, etc.

Then start backing the value down and continue practicing.

By the time you can torque roll the plane with a setting of 2.0, you'll be able to do it on the real thing. G3 is a bit twitchier than a the real thing.

I believe that this is not a fault of the modeling, but the lack of feedback that we would get when working with a real plane.

 

[opjose]

Yup, that little trick taught me how to torque roll.

Remember that the setting of 1 seems to be too sensitive.

Around 2-3 you'll be mimicing a real plane.

 

[mondell]

help please could someone please help i can't find the lateral drag factor opt i'm running g3 .430

 

[opjose]

help please could someone please help i can't find the lateral drag factor opt i'm running g3 .430

Turn on the "Advanced" options in the editor.

This is in the pulldown menu at the top.

After you enable the advanced options you'll see the lateral drag factor setting.

 

[mondell]

Thanks for all the help Opjose.

Thanks,
mondell

 

[koen330]

I also had problems learning to torque-roll. And indeed it needs lots of practice, but once the "click" is there in our head, it becomes like flying straight and level.

I did not change model parameters, and mainly used the YAK54 and the Extra330S (with opening cockpit). The Extra is a nice stable model.

I started by learning to hover the model with the cockpit towards me. In this position you see the model in a "natural"-way, and it is easy to give the correct inputs, nevertheless it took me severeal hours to get the hovering "controled".

The next step was to hover with the belly towards me. What the fu.... No way to keep the model in the hover. It felt like all the controls were reversed. I also had the problem that I crossed the controlls in my head. I mean that when I wanted to increase the power I pushed forward the right stick instead of the left, and when I wanted to give up elevater I closed the throttle. Not even speaking about the yaw.

I kept going the practice and then suddenly, bang, it was there. My brain sorted it out.
What worked for me was the following:

In the hoover (cocpit toward me) only look at the top half of the model (prop).
When the belly is towards me, only look at the bottom half (tail).
I don't know why, but that helped me. For some reason, by looking like that I started giving the correct inputs.

Now hoovering and torque rolling is smooth and controlled. But I have to admit, it took me a LOT of practice to get there.

Hope it helps,

Koen

 

[vitek]

I learned using the Yak-54 with the gyro. You can put the gyro gain on the knob and adjust how much you need to do to keep it in the air.

Travis

 

[Breakstuff5050]

Yall must understand, their is no secret to learning to torque roll, its all about knowing exactly where the plane is at all times on the controls, anticipate, but dont get too excited. Slow the sim rate down to where it is still a little bit of a challenge to torque, practice like that till you get bored, then turn the heat up as needed. Concentrate on the canopy, nothing else. And TAKE THE TIME to edit the expotential on all controls, then it wont be so twitchy, you might find that the yak flies like a dream! It does, just tame it, usually people skip this step and still complain about "twitchy" planes. Should i post a mod?