Going back to Multiplayer issues

Chromenut

Chromenut

New member
I know there's a thread on this but it seems to be lacking attention. I've read through the G4 forums trying to find out why I'm having so many problems that I didn't have on G3.5. Not many are being answered.

Got more than enough firepower on the computer front, running frame rates up to 175 on average, depending on what multiplayer environment I'm in. In G3.5, I had a problem both hosting and joining multiplayer sessions, followed the instructions regarding passing through a specific port from my router, using the MS Loopback, etc., all that solved my G3.5 problems, but now they are recurring on G4.

I can join a session, but within 2 minutes I just get bumped out. NO error messages of any kind. Go back, try the same session again, same results. Sometimes I have to try 4 or 5 times before I can stay in long enough to fly. It appears that it may be related to the number of guests on the field. Anything under 4 seems to work fine. But then I join NeedTape's session, am the 8th of 8 flyers, and fly for over an hour?!? No consistency in this issue.

Then there are the sessions that have one of two faults - didn't pass on the documents, or couldn't reach host. Either one, I can sometimes continue to try, get the fault multiple times, then all of a sudden enter the hosts flying field with no issue.

Biggest problem here is that mutliplayer flying is a disappointment, as you just can't consistently connect. Tried this direct to the internet without my router, tried shutting down my firewall, something I dread doing, with no changes. It must be something in my settings on G4...
 
I'd say you're doing everything right, it's just abundantly clear that the netcode for G4 is very poorly written and needs some serious attention.

One should not have to do anything with their routers to play a multiplayer game. Period.

Your game shouldn't crash ....ever.

The list server should update/remove defunct sessions immediately.

Cascading Unexpected Errors need to be addressed.

Unexpected Errors need to be addressed.
 
Just had a real interesting experience. While I was typing that last message, I actually was able to get onto a multiplayer session that had 7 players of 8 on board. I joined as player 8 (Need Tape) and have been playing up until about 15 minutes ago with no issues at all. Quite a long session, flew every plane from Expansion Packs 1 - 4, then started on my custom planes.

Got to one specific plane, and BLAMMO!!!! Program crashed big time. The airplane was Paulene and it flies great in single user mode so tried it on another multiplayer session and BLAMMO!!! Same exact crash. Obviously there's something wrong with this plane.

Just tried again to get back into that session, keeps rejecting me stating, "could not contact multiplayer session host"...


Meant to mention setup and connection - I'm on a T1 using an Alienware water cooled Aurora, tons of power, tons of speed, tons of memory, tons of drive space, and I shut down all other apps while flying. No reason for these issues.
 
Last edited:
The reason you couldnt re-connect to my field is because when that plane you loaded crashed you....it also crashed me out of my host(that error we all know and love). since I leave my host running for all to have a place to fly and have fun. when I get crashed the host goes down and might still be listed but nobody can join. so one bad plane takes out a server and nobody gets to fly until its reset.

almost all of the times that my host crashes is because of someone flying a bad plane edit.
 
interesting solution

Talegunner has a lot of probs staying in my fields when they are full as well. When he gets back into my field he quickly tells me who he can see. He can't see the pilot with the plane that is causing the prob. So I quickly tell that person to change planes before coming back and boot them. Gunner gets in, the other pilot comes back, and we all stay fine.

Works everytime (so far)

Some variants cause the session to crash the second they enter. Unless you were watching the text to see who entered, it keeps happening until they themselves stop trying to come in.

So yes, one bad apple....
 
Last edited:
Haole said:
I'd say you're doing everything right, it's just abundantly clear that the netcode for G4 is very poorly written and needs some serious attention.

One should not have to do anything with their routers to play a multiplayer game. Period.

Your game shouldn't crash ....ever.

The list server should update/remove defunct sessions immediately.

Cascading Unexpected Errors need to be addressed.

Unexpected Errors need to be addressed.
Click to expand...
I agree with you Haole. THe netcode is pretty much just enough to allow multiplayer on RealFlight. Infact, sometime around I'm gonna get an internet cable splitter and plug my computer into one end of it. And if I still can't host a session after that, there is something wrong with G4 (I've checked my system and it's perfect). Infact I've noticed Unexpected Errors happening all the time now, even in multiplayer. Oh and one other thing, My Unexpected Errors mutated (I'm not kidding! :eek: ) while I was loading a DDS in Single Player (I was loading the DDS then an Unexpected Error pops up). Strange thing is, I've only scene the mutated error once. Infact, because those errors are getting more plentyful, I'm thinking of upgrading my graphics card.
 
RealFlight does not use it's own code for multiplayer. It uses DirectPlay which is written by MicroSoft. If you feel so strongly about what a Flight sim should or shouldn't do, then write your own program, and make sure you budget for a server for everybody to use. Then you could charge people a monthly fee to play online. No thanks, I like it the way it is. Works fine for me. Maybe we should go back to crying about swap page ratings.
 
jeffpn said:
RealFlight does not use it's own code for multiplayer. It uses DirectPlay which is written by MicroSoft. If you feel so strongly about what a Flight sim should or shouldn't do, then write your own program, and make sure you budget for a server for everybody to use. Then you could charge people a monthly fee to play online. No thanks, I like it the way it is. Works fine for me. Maybe we should go back to crying about swap page ratings.
Click to expand...

I wasn't aware of RF using direct play but that doesn't answer the question as to why it doesn't work correctly when used with RF. It should and I assume the devs are working on fixing these errors as they'd be shooting themselves in the feet if not; it cripples a major selling point of the program if said function is broken.

Sorry if it irritates you to hear that I'd like the software that I've paid for to do what it is advertised to do reliably (or at all) and I'm happy that your simulator doesn't crash on you.

Learn to distinguish a whine from a legitimate complaint.

Carl
 
I remember having multiplayer player issues way back in my days of G2. I used a Directx diagnostic utility that allows you to connect with someone over the internet, and that did not work, either. The issue is entirely outside the scope of RealFlight. It would be like using one speaker, and complaining that RealFlight used to work in stereo when you had 2 speakers. Nothing at all to do with the RealFlight software. I can distinguish between a whine and a complaint. I just do not agree at all that
Haole said:
One should not have to do anything with their routers to play a multiplayer game.
Click to expand...
You can't, as a customer, decide that anyone who makes a multiplayer game must do it in the way that you want it done. KE chose to use code that's already part of their customers' computers. If KE chooses to not write their own code to make multiplayer work, that is their prerogative. On your other point, what do you mean by a "defunct session?" One that nobody else can join? I find it to be a pain as well, when someone who cannot host inherits a session, but I deal with it. To be honest, it was your "Period," "Ever," "Immediately," and "Needs to be addressed (x2)" that made me read your post as if you were saying, "I'm going to take my ball and go home." Or maybe you think that you are in charge of barking orders at Knife Edge. I just don't understand how some customers, and I don't mean only you as I've seen it a few times before, think that if they make demands, the company will listen. In my opinion, G4 is a very fine product. Perfect? No, but if I had a real issue with a certain aspect of the software, I would take it up with technical support in a very polite way. As far as the multiplayer issue goes, I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I have a DSL router that is capable of 'bridged mode.' My router is a Speedstream 4200. My $50 Linksys WRT54G router can do the PPPoE login that my DSL requires. That way, my router sees the outside IP address. With UPNP turned on in the router, I can host, I can join, no problems. That soulution has to be available to 98% of KE's customers. I've also put my modem in bridged mode without a router, and let my computer do the PPPoE. That works, too. KE does not have a server for it's multiplayer. It's peer-to-peer. So the users do need to know how to do that. But it doesn't cost me anything as a monthly fee to play MP. If RF made me pay to play, I'd never fly online. On my last point, I am having MP problems right now. I lose connection after a minute, and then it says that <All players> have left. I had the same problem when I lived in the hotels earlier this year. If I was the first to join a seession, I could stay. But I'm using my dad's internet connection now, as I'm buying his house this Friday. He was kind enough to let me put my Linksys router on his Speedstream 4200, but since it's not my service, I will not reconfigure his hardware to make MP work. When my parents move out in December, I'll configure my own equipment to make it work again. Any adult having problems should be able to buy the rquired hardware to make MP work, if it's important to them. Any kids having the problem, well, ... . I would be curious to know what the equivalent to bridged mode is for cable internet.
 
All that's great, and I won't quote it cause it's too long, but my setup and configuration is not the issue here. I've got a top end computer, with top end video, with a T1 direct to my door. I've run direct to the fiber and still have connectivity issues. It appears to me to be the mix of custom versus stock aircraft plus custom versus stock airports, but then maybe not.

Last night I was on for hours with an MP group that I'd not been able to join for several days. I'd attempted and attempted and attempted, all with the same results, "could not contact session host". Now it works fine. Go figure. How can that be my setup when I've changed nothing?

And Yes, ALL of this is RealFlight's issues. How can it be otherwise??? You telling me that the Dodge you're driving that has a stereo made by Marantz - if that stereo should fail Dodge shouldn't warrant it, it should be Marantz? Not logical dude.

They build, market, sell and support a product that they advertise has certain features then those features need to work, plain and simple!!!
 
Chromenut said:
And Yes, ALL of this is RealFlight's issues. How can it be otherwise??? You telling me that the Dodge you're driving that has a stereo made by Marantz - if that stereo should fail Dodge shouldn't warrant it, it should be Marantz? Not logical dude.
Click to expand...
Ultimately, yes, Marantz would warrant the stereo, although the end user would only deal with Dodge. If you buy a guitar, and can't play it, are you going to call Fender and complain? Or if you buy a bicycle for your child, and he falls over not having learned balance, is it Schwinn's fault? Sometimes inherent knowledge, talent or whatever is a pre-requisite for a product that you buy.

You know, KE's easy out on this is to make RF not multiplayer. Just because a few people don't have the networking skills to make it work, should no one be able to use it?
 
Last edited:
The issue is entirely outside the scope of RealFlight.
Click to expand...

This assumption is a fallacy since the malfunction is directly tied to the faulty product. I'm trying to think of all of the games that I've played with others online (starting with Day of Defeat I think was the first way back when) and can't recall ever having a problem with multiplayer function aside from people using sploitz.
If KE chooses to not write their own code to make multiplayer work, that is their prerogative.
Click to expand...

It would be nice if this design decision enabled more customers to use a function that they paid for.

I presume you are talking about WoW when you mention a for-pay server being the enabler of the software's multiplayer function.
To be honest, it was your "Period," "Ever," "Immediately," and "Needs to be addressed (x2)" that made me read your post as if you were saying, "I'm going to take my ball and go home." Or maybe you think that you are in charge of barking orders at Knife Edge.
Click to expand...

Please do not project. I was simply stating what needs to be fixed and in an objective fashion. How you came to that interpretation of me is curious.

Yes, you are seeing cascading unexpected errors when an entire session loses its users at once. Wouldn't you agree that this bug needs to be addressed?


Your anecdotes re: hosting are intriguing. I'm hardwired into the exact model router and connected via cable (pretty slow as far as cable is concerned--about 3Mbps down). I've been able to both host and join without making any changes to the router's security settings, though the results vary from day-to-day.

I believe a large degree of issues with joining listed sessions is that the list server is not refreshing its population fast enough--so yeah, defunct sessions that nobody can join are orphaned off to another player as you noted when the real host crashes out with the typical unexpected error and since the list server is still showing a port that is no longer used, nobody can join it at that point unless either by coincidence or user-input they have configured their hardware to the convention formed here: 2302, etc. Note that this is just an educated guess my part.

You can't, as a customer, decide that anyone who makes a multiplayer game must do it in the way that you want it done.
Click to expand...

Of course not but I can and will continue to offer my observations and criticisms so that the company will be able to improve their product. From a PR perspective this may not be what their marketing dept. wants to see but watching the boards for user input has been repeatedly mentioned as a means KE uses to track down issues. Any smart company will be on the lookout for feedback like this.

So on that note I'd suggest instead of complaining about me and others offering bug reports and feature requests here that you take your observations of the issues you experience and share them for the developers to think and improve on.

Carl
 
I use G4 to practice new and different moves, I rarely use multiplayer, and as long as G4 does it's job I find multiplayer just a unnecessary addition to the software, in other terms it's not important to my flying skills.

(I do not use multiplayer to practice on) ;)
 
Chromenut,

Got to one specific plane, and BLAMMO!!!! Program crashed big time. The airplane was Paulene and it flies great in single user mode so tried it on another multiplayer session and BLAMMO!!! Same exact crash. Obviously there's something wrong with this plane.

I just joined 2 different sessions with no crashes or ill effects whatsoever flying the Paulene. Honestly I don't think it is the plane, although I never have probs posting or joining.

I did have to work to get it set up correctly though, Router, firewall etc.........
 
The "malfunction" as you called it, is directly tied to DirectPlay, which is a MicroSoft product. As I said in my earlier post, I could not get it's own diagnostic program to allow me to connect with someone over the internet. I was not running RF at the time, obviously. KE can only assume that you can successfully run it's DirectPlay routines. I don't believe that KE should be held responsible for Microsoft's program, even if RF invokes it. For example, if you can't hit the correct keys on the keyboard, is that your Word Processor's fault?

I don't believe that the bug of all the players leaving at once is KE's fault. It never happened to me when I had my modem and router properly set up. At my parent's house now, I don't have the modem in bridged mode, and I don't have UPNP turned on. I'll wait until I take over the phone bill, which will be in December.

Also, sometimes I'll get the cannot connect to at least one player error when I'm not properly set up. That's a death blow for me, where I'll find myself back at my previous field. But if I can get the host to ask everyone to leave, and if I'm in the field before the player that my system has issues with, I'll be able to stay. Again, my hardware is not set up properly.

You mentioned the original host crashing out. That's not necessarily the case. If the original host disconnects willingly, the session is handed over to the most senior player. Everyone currently flying will be able to stay, but if that person isn't set up properly, no one else will join. In my opinion, that is not KE's fault either.
 
Jeff, I'm not well informed enough to comment on the efficacy of KE's DirectPlay implementation other than to say that to the end user the product does not work correctly at times. The purpose is not to assign blame but rather to point out the results and hope that those in the know can improve upon the situation.

C
 
I see your point, but I don't think that Microsoft follows this forum. Nor do I think that KE can get MS programmers to rework DPlay.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top