Heli Autorotations

[12oclockhigh]

I do not feel that the heli auto rotation characteristics represent the real world very well. The blades in the real world have a lot more energy left than what the sim would indicate. It seems like the blades do not weigh enough or maybe the air the heli is "falling" through is not giving the blades enough energy. It is just way off. I find it much easier to auto in the real world.

I am speaking specifically of the Gaui X7 heli at the moment. It could be just this heli. Could you have one of your name pilots comment to you on this, please?

Anyone else care to comment?

 

[jbourke]

We've had this reviewed several times and the professional pilots we work with like it how it is.

It could be there is a problem with the Gaui X7 specifically. It could also be a problem with perception.

The Keep Ground in View camera often throws people off during autorotations because it zooms in as the heli nears the ground. You could try switching to manual zoom mode and then zooming all the way out. Another interesting way to try this is to enter walk mode and zoom all the way out so that you are no longer moving the camera at all. This can help to give you a view that is more like what you have in real life.

If you have a data logger and a youtube account we could always use more data.

Jim

 

[N8LBV]

I find the autorotations EXTREMELY easy in Realflight.
And especially the larger Helicopters including the Gaui X7.

I also find the 450's seem to be much easier than real life.
All of the 450's in Realflight auto extremely easily to me.
Granted I'm extremely new at doing autos in real life and I've only done them so
far on a very cheap E-Razor 450.
I have a pair of these and they are the beaters that I am learning to auto on.

I did 5 autos today from about 100FT up.
4 went very well and the 5th was a hard landing.
It came in fast skidding in the grass and it tipped over & did a double summersalt.
This bent both top pitch links but no other damage!

I'm pretty pleased with today's results!
And today was my first time ever hitting throttle hold on a 450 way up and committing to autoing it all the way down.

Before that I've been practicing on a tiny Helimax AXE-100 over grass.
It actually can auto! sorta.

(on the AXE-100 (electric tail motor) I set the throttle hold curve to give the motor just enough power to only make it buzz a bit and not really turn the blades..
This allows me to keep electric tail power on it and pretty much get the full effect.

 

[opjose]

I do not feel that the heli auto rotation characteristics represent the real world very well. The blades in the real world have a lot more energy left than what the sim would indicate. It seems like the blades do not weigh enough or maybe the air the heli is "falling" through is not giving the blades enough energy. It is just way off. I find it much easier to auto in the real world.

I am speaking specifically of the Gaui X7 heli at the moment. It could be just this heli. Could you have one of your name pilots comment to you on this, please?

Anyone else care to comment?

I agree.

In many of the T-Rex's ( particularly the 500's, 600's and 700's ) I see the same thing.

My real world helis have a LOT of rotational energy left when you throw them into a hold. Landing them during autos is quite easy compared to the sim.

The simulated versions loose energy far too quickly and spool down too fast with pitch.

 

[N8LBV]

Landing them during autos is quite easy compared to the sim.

The simulated versions loose energy far too quickly and spool down too fast with pitch.

My preference is of course closer to real.
But as a learner would rather have them be more difficult in the sim or emulate
a worse case scenario versus being too easy.

Did about 10 more autos today from 100 & 200 FT. on some really chap baggy 450s.

Realfight definitely has been helpful in this regard.
I was able to just jump right in and it worked for me (on the real ones).

Everyone says 450's are really hard to auto, I'm finding it easy and probably due to my realflight training. I auto EVERYTHING on RealFlight adn I've been working at it for a few months.

These 450's *should* be worse case scenario.
Cheap, low head speed flybarred and cheap 'frictiony' parts and virtually impossible to get perfect blade tracking.

I'm hoping when I get on a nice flybarless Trex 450pro or Blade 450X that they will auto even nicer than these beaters I'm practicing on.

 

[opjose]

Make sure you have your realism settings dialed all the way up.

It sounds like they might not be.

It is almost impossible to auto most helis in the sim with realism turned all the way up due to the overly fast blade energy loss.

You simply have almost NO time to do so, and the blades do not gain sustaining speed with a rate of negative pitch decent, as they should.

 

[N8LBV]

Make sure you have your realism settings dialed all the way up.

It sounds like they might not be.

It is almost impossible to auto most helis in the sim with realism turned all the way up due to the overly fast blade energy loss.

You simply have almost NO time to do so, and the blades do not gain sustaining speed with a rate of negative pitch decent, as they should.

I most certainly have realism all the way up.
I'm an autoing fool.
It's one of my favorite things to do.
I can even auto the wasp (250) in the heli-megapack.

Steve

 

[N8LBV]

I just started doing autos in real life after doing it for months in RealFLight and am using a pair of Dynam E-razor 450s and having no problems.
I'm quite pleased and it went better than I expected.
These are very cheapie beginner 450's and I think they are worse cases
Next I'll try my Align 450SA (much higher quality helicopter),
and then the flybarless Blade 450X.

 

[opjose]

I have a bunch of Align helis from the 450's up through the 700's.

I can perform auto-rotate landings all day long on the real thing from almost any altitude.

On the sim I find it almost impossible.

 

[N8LBV]

I have a bunch of Align helis from the 450's up through the 700's.

I can perform auto-rotate landings all day long on the real thing from almost any altitude.

On the sim I find it almost impossible.

Auto-rotations are probably my favorite thing to do on the sim, and it took me quite
awhile before I was able to do it.
They all seem to auto for me alright if I keep plenty forward momentum.

The Wasp 250 is nearly impossible and so are the little Helimax Novus CPs.
But I can glide them in.

The Helimax 450 is super break sensitive and was very hard at first.
If you want to join up on multiplayer sometime soon I'd be happy to share
what I'm doing.

100% positive I have realism all the way up.
And I wouldn't want it any other way.

 

[N8LBV]

I have a bunch of Align helis from the 450's up through the 700's.

I can perform auto-rotate landings all day long on the real thing from almost any altitude.

Awesome!!

I went out Thursday morning and flew 3 packs on the Trex 450SA and did nothing but altitude autos.

It auto'd a little nicer than the E-Razor 450s.

Came back home with no damage, I couldn't be more pleased.

 

[N8LBV]

I also have my sim set to give frequent tail rotor failures so the tail is always going out on me
and I get a lot of practicing flipping it over and autoing in with no tail.
That's fun.
Hitting throttle hold and autoing in is yesterday's cake!

 

[helimechanic]

weight of the blade might not be set correctly, more weight more inertia, too much negative pitch can lead to loss of rpm, incorrect angle of attack can lead to loss of rpm

 

[N8LBV]

weight of the blade might not be set correctly, more weight more inertia, too much negative pitch can lead to loss of rpm, incorrect angle of attack can lead to loss of rpm

Yeah I imagine too much neg pitch can overdrag it.
90° of negative pitch would be too much
But in general you add neg. pitch to increase or 'store up blade speed'

I'm guessing just slamming it full negative may create excessive drag as well
as well as causing you to lose full control of the glide angle and decent rate.

Some 450's may not have enough blade mass to be able to spin them up faster
by using more negative pitch and then break the fall at the bottom if it is a very steep drop.. you need to glide it in like an airplane using less headspeed but
a shallower descent rate and skid it on the ground to release the energy or a bit of a distance instead of plumping it into the ground because the blades do not have enough energy stored to break the fall on their own.
Skids and ground space can be used to help here.
Most of my 450 autos result in a smooth long glide coming in over the ground, a flare where it slows way down and then sorta plumps down with very little energy left and usually skids on the ground just a little bit as it sets down. I'm pretty comfortable and experienced at those, I have yet to try some faster down steep ones with more headspeed from a faster fall. I'm sure it can be done or at least partially done adding a little more dramma than gliding it in like an airplane.