Helicopter hovering question

F

flarosa

New member
Hi there,

I'm pretty new to all this stuff. I want to fly model helicopters, eventually. So I'm starting with RealFlight and the Impala Trainer helicopter.

One confusing point is the two toggle switches in the upper left and upper right hand corners of the controller. I notice that the engine sound changes when I flip them but there's no indication of what each position stands for. What switch positions should I use as a beginner?

Also, is the training helicopter the best place to start? I assumed it was since it says training, and has those sticks on the bottom. What I want to fly eventually is something like a T-Rex 450.

Thanks,
Frank
 
Yes a training helicopter is the BEST place to start.

Electrics are small and have low mass, so they are very twitchy.

They are MUCH harder to fly than the bigger Nitro birds.

You would be better served starting with a larger heli and moving down as you progress, if you have a club in your area ( who doesn't in the U.S. ? ).

The upper left shoulder switch controls the Normal/Idleup1/Idleup2 modes.

Normal mode pitches the blades for normal upright flight. The engine seems to run the slowest when you are in normal mode.

Idleup1 mode is used for milder acrobatics. The engine runs at a higher rate and positive and negative pitch on the collective is permitted.

Idleup2 mode is used for inverted flight, etc. The engine runs at it's highest rate, and pitch movement to the extremes is permitted. The engine CAN bog down at the extreme collective movements.

The upper right should switch permits you to disconnect the engine from the clutch so that the blades are freewheeling.

This permits you to practice landing without engine power.. something that is difficult to do with a heli.
 
Helicopter

Hey thanks for the tips.

I notice that if I move the right stick to the right, the helicopter seems to tilt a little and then it stays tilted that way even when I release the stick back to the center. Is this what's supposed to happen?
 
flarosa said:
Hi there,

I'm pretty new to all this stuff. I want to fly model helicopters, eventually. So I'm starting with RealFlight and the Impala Trainer helicopter.

One confusing point is the two toggle switches in the upper left and upper right hand corners of the controller. I notice that the engine sound changes when I flip them but there's no indication of what each position stands for. What switch positions should I use as a beginner?

Also, is the training helicopter the best place to start? I assumed it was since it says training, and has those sticks on the bottom. What I want to fly eventually is something like a T-Rex 450.

Thanks,
Frank
Click to expand...
Hello there! Im glad your getting in to helis,since your a beginner i'd recomend a logo 10 3d. its a bigger size and its very durable. I'd like you to start with electric since nitros can be kinda scary for the new guy,plus you gotta learn how to tune em. Plus you want more flight time,so you don't want to have any hassles starting your engine and stuff. But later on if you want you might want to get a nitro wich will be better since you have some experiance.
 
flarosa said:
Hey thanks for the tips.

I notice that if I move the right stick to the right, the helicopter seems to tilt a little and then it stays tilted that way even when I release the stick back to the center. Is this what's supposed to happen?
Click to expand...

Yup absolutely.

A heli is unlike a car.

When you tilt the rotor to the right, you are inclining the thrust vector of the rotor blades, which causes the heli to start to move right.

If you keep holding the right stick, to the right, you will continue to INCREASE the amount of change in the helis attitude.

When you let go, the heli retains the LAST attitude it was in, so if it was inclined, it will remain inclined...

The AMOUNT of "inclination" from the horizontal, determines the degree of acceleration in that direction.

Think of a marble on a pie tin...

If you incline the plane of the tin, the marble starts rolling to the right and will keep accelerating as long as you hold it titled. If you bring the tin back to level the marble will continue to roll at the same speed it was last at, and only over time does it slow down due to friction.

Take that analogy and apply it to the heli.

Except a heli is FAR MORE UNSTABLE than a marble on a pie tin!!!!

---

BTW: The Logo 10 is a good electric.

It's not cheap either.

Starter Nitro's are fairly inexpensive, and fairly rugged, plus parts are easy to obtain.

A starter electric heli will run you about 250.00 for a frame. A starter Nitro heli about the same amount.

The larger mass of the Nitro heli makes it MUCH easier to control.

You DO have to deal with the engine, but this is a VERY important part of learning to deal with helis and should not be overlooked.

Most clubs require that you start off with Nitro helis for this reason, then graduate to electrics in decreasing size.

---

If you absolutely MUST "do things on your own", ( not that this is a good idea... ) purchase something like a Blade CX.

It will teach you orientation, while take you through the first few steps.

It will also convince you that you need help from an instructor for anything beyond the CX type helis.

This alone will save you boatloads of money.


Oh, yes... Don't even THINK about getting into helis unless you can drop 1K into it to start.

You have to deal with radios, frames, upgrades, etc.

Those "complete" $299.00 packages sure look attractive don't they.... you buy one and end up purchasing an addition 600.00+ in upgrades, repairs and replacement parts...

... when you could have had a V8!
 
A marble in a pie tin

Yes, I see what you mean. This is tough and slow-going! I've been at it for two days now and the best I can do is about one minute before I totally crash the thing.

Is a real helicopter (one with people inside it) this unstable? If so, my hat's off to anyone who'd set foot in the thing.
 
flarosa said:
Yes, I see what you mean. This is tough and slow-going! I've been at it for two days now and the best I can do is about one minute before I totally crash the thing.

Is a real helicopter (one with people inside it) this unstable? If so, my hat's off to anyone who'd set foot in the thing.
Click to expand...

Two days?

It took me two MONTHS before I could even begin to hover a heli, and then it was only after I cam back eh, from a party...

I guess the "induced" slowness of my response helped me out.

Heli practice consisted of:

Spool up, lift, crash, red button, spool up, lift, tail strike, crash, red button, spool up, lift, , right side roll, crash, red button, spool up, lift, crash, red button, spool up, lift, crash.

Take it slow.

Re: Real thing unstable?

For the most part YES.

The real thing has even more mass so it responds more slowly making it a bit easier... some helis however are purposely made to be very responsive, and therefor ARE just as reactive as say a .50 - .90 size in the sim.

A real heli pilot "feels" the acceleration in each axis, and has a better visual perspective of what is happening, so this helps him a lot.

Next time you ride a real heli, just imagine what would happen if the pilot croaks.

In a plane you would have a chance of bringing it down.

In a heli?

Good luck.... the pilot is keeping the thing in the air AIDED by the engine and blades.
 
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Controller input

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the tips and the video. I'm learning a little at a time.

One thing I noticed is that if I edit the helicopter and I cut the sensitivity of the pitch and roll functions by half, I'm much more successful at controlling it, probably because I tend to move the stick more than the recommended amount. Is this a good strategy for dealing with a real helicopter later, or is it a bad habit I should avoid?

Thanks,

Frank
 
flarosa said:
Is a real helicopter (one with people inside it) this unstable? If so, my hat's off to anyone who'd set foot in the thing.
Click to expand...
Well, I'm just starting into the R/C helicopters myself. Bought the G3.5 based on a lot of recommendations from everybody to "not try to fly it" before some sort of practice.
Of course they were right!

So, I'm practicing here with the sim and telling myself that this should be easy as I'm an Airline Transport Pilot in helicopters and airplanes!! You would thing with 7000 hours of helicopter time, that running this sim would be child's play.

NOT! :eek:

So, I'm in the same boat as any other newbie to the RC heli world.

Also, if you should find yourself with a "dead pilot" in a helicopter and a 747, I'll assure you that you'll survive the landing in the 747 but I'd not be betting on the helicopter!!

As an instructor in both, I'd go for the 747!!!

AD (first post as a newbie RC heli guy)
 
Welcome ADulay!

Yes one of the most common comments from the real world pilots who are quick to pick up the controls of an RC craft is...

" hey, who reversed the controls?!!! ".

It's a completely different thing when you are the "spectator" watching something that you are remotely controlling...

For the newbies, imagine how different it would be to try to parallel park a full sized remotely controlled CAR!

Now take the complexity of a Heli and translate that, given the above analogy.

It's NOT easy.

It takes LOTS of practise.

Things will BREAK! ( Repeatedly! )

G3 has a "big red button" which is far cheaper to learn with...



As I've often stated, my first few MONTHS at heli practise consisted of

Spool up
Raise Throttle
Crash
Red Button
Spool Up
Raise throttle
Lift
Crash
Red Button
.
.
.
99 bottles of beer on the wall...
.
.

Flying a heli consists of ANTICIPATION and correction before things get away from you... but you have to do this slowly and consistently, as ALL newbies OVERCORRECT.
 
While opjose I completely agree with you, some of these $189 packages are not bad. I have a Blade CX and a CP. I started with a CX, and can now proficiently fly the CP. You don't absolutely NEED 1K to drop in ti to start, but it does help. I've spent less than $100 in replacement parts for both after 2 years. Then again, before I touched either one, I had put MANY hours into G3 and could hover everyway inverted and not with the Dominion 90 on full rates. I picked up the CX and it was dumb so I went out and got a CP. Much more challenging, so I switched back to the CX and learned how real-life was different from the sim.

But after that, like you said, spending 1K on say, a T-Rex SA right now would be one heck of a way to go, and want to do so myself. Listen to opjose, he knows what he is talking about.

Maybe my easiness with heli's is that I'm only 17, have been playin video games all my life and have quite a quick reaction time. All those things help, almost more than anything is the video games. Hand-eye coordination is key with heli's and all RC's.
 
Zelatio said:
Maybe my easiness with heli's is that I'm only 17, have been playin video games all my life and have quite a quick reaction time. All those things help, almost more than anything is the video games. Hand-eye coordination is key with heli's and all RC's.
Click to expand...
Oh, YOU'RE the one who plays video games on end as a 17 yr old male. LOL. When I was 17, Galaga was a brand new game. Heck, I remember when Space Invaders first hit the scene at the bowling alley. I owed everyone I knew a quarter at one time or another!!! :D
 
jeffpn said:
Oh, YOU'RE the one who plays video games on end as a 17 yr old male. LOL. When I was 17, Galaga was a brand new game. Heck, I remember when Space Invaders first hit the scene at the bowling alley. I owed everyone I knew a quarter at one time or another!!! :D
Click to expand...

Space invaders and a bowling alley? What are those? Actually I just got a Wii and I find the bowling game in Wii Sports addicting! Now back to the CX2 model in G3!
 
I Have a question about landing a Sim Helicopter, How do I know when it is too hard a landing? A real heli would break from a hard landing, wouldn't it?
 
If you wonder if it's too hard, it's too hard. Practice, practice, practice. Try to hover just a couple inches above the ground (hopefully your video card renders shadows), and gently set it down.
 
I have wonderd when i have see some real heli land. IE Real RC heli. check out some of the vidios on the net.

Some have had no problem hitting throttle hold whilst still 6 inchec above the deck.. Man the little ones are tough.

Mail problem is that the blades might bounce down and hit the boom. and or the tail rotor hit the ground...

PS. dzgruntld (Per you Querrie) I changed the Blade CP Pro E-Tail. should be Easyer/simple..
Also thanks to Tn Before he told me I didn't realise people like twitchy controle. Was just me eh :) . so i changed it to +20 Expo in low and +55%expo in hi... other changes. previously (-20% expo all the time)
AV on the swaps now.

You can change the skit strength in the sim... but smooth is best eh ;)
 
Yes, and the biggest problem for newbies is of course NOT stopping motion in all directions before settling the heli down.

This in turn causes those wonderful rollovers...

It's too bad that G3 doesn't model this...

e.g. the heli "catching" in the grass while it moves sideways...

It would save a LOT of helis....
 
PS. dzgruntld (Per you Querrie) I changed the Blade CP Pro E-Tail. should be Easyer/simple..
Also thanks to Tn Before he told me I didn't realise people Dont like twitchy controle. Was just me eh . so i changed it to +20 Expo in low and +55%expo in hi... other changes. previously (-20% expo all the time)
Click to expand...
Sorry that didn't make sence. Red is the edit
 
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