KE lack of communication

Flunkn

Flunkn

New member
Well G4 is now shipping and still not a single word from KE on upgrade options / costs from G3 / G3.5 to G4. This is very poor corporate strategy on the part of KE. We can assume at this point the path forward is to either start from zero and spend another $200 or stay with G3.5. Because there has been no official posting from KE on any upgrade path, the result will be the eventual mass alienation of Real Flight customers. This leads to software piracy, loss of revenue, followed by lack up upgrades, no software support, and eventually no more simulator program.

I do like this software and do want to support KE, but for their part I expect them to create a reasonable plan for users pay to upgrade to the current software versions. KE can you break the silence and let us in on the plan?

THX-
:confused:
 
Flunkn

Sorry to say but: (start from zero and spend another $200 or) Who says that your getting screwed? I have it on order but I'll see what I see then talk!
 
Hey, this is an original thread: one where the lowly customer threatens the big bad corporate giant. In all these threads though, no one has ever actually whined, "The customer is always right!!!"
 
jeffpn said:
Hey, this is an original thread: one where the lowly customer threatens the big bad corporate giant. In all these threads though, no one has ever actually whined, "The customer is always right!!!"
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Hey this is an original response (and one I've come to expect from this board lately). Someone has a legitimate grievance, asks for KE to change the way they do things for the better, and gets stomped on and ridiculed. The sarcasm is there, but what's missing is outright abuse and a dash of inappropriate offensive humour so I only give this thread 3/5.

People if someone makes a legitimate point and you disagree by all means say so but this immature nonsensical shoot from the hip reaction of assuming anyone who complains deserves to be ridiculed is wearing thin. Grow up, stop patting yourselves on the back for making fun of people with lame jokes and sarcasm, and try a grown up discussion! Reading this board is getting to be like watching parliament question time. I've seen a lot of childish nonsense on the net but over the last year or so this place takes the cake.
 
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Flunkn said:
KE can you break the silence and let us in on the plan?
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The details of the rebate are not determined by Knife Edge Software, but we will most definitely share this information with you when it is made available to us.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, Adam. Great Planes/RealFlight are the distributors of G4 (and G3, G2, etc.). As such any rebate announcement would be coming from them. It seems to me that I read that here (but I can't seem to find the quote right now)


Since Great Planes/RealFlight haven't updated their websites to even indicate the existance of G4 - I can only guess when they'll ever get around to announcing a rebate. "Soon" is a very relative term and it means different things to different people. I wouldn't be holding my breadth in anticipation. If you want G4. Buy G4. When the rebate's announced I'm sure that you'll still be able to get it - KE won't let you down. ;)
 
Adam Taylor said:
The details of the rebate are not determined by Knife Edge Software, but we will most definitely share this information with you when it is made available to us.
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See this here. Take notes. It's a good response. No false promises. No bashing the user for daring to question the way things are. No judgements about the user's intelligence or frustration. A simple clear concise statement of fact that it isn't KE we should be talking to regarding rebates.

There is no need to further insult and abuse a frustrated user, or one that feels wronged.

Thanks for a good reply Adam.

On a side note - that KE has no say in itself is kinda bad, since they're the ones announcing there should be a rebate coming. What KE should instead be doing is stating that entity such and such - Great Planes I presume - plans a rebate, but KE can't make any promises. This is also what should have happened with the GMax plugin - no promises, just as much of their plans as they're willing to divulge, qualified with the fact that it's contingent on a 3rd party doing what they told KE staff they plan. KE then breaks no promises, and has been clear that the suggestion is a possibility not a definite. A little bit of clear communication means one less reason for users to get irate. Yes some users will still get annoyed if they don't get the rebate but because KE have done the right thing and kept the users informed there should be less annoyed users)
 
G4

regarding the price ($199.95) and or availability, and any rebate on owners of any other of the simulator types, ie=G2, G3 G3.5 who wish to up date to G4, I think Knife edge, real flight or anyone else who has control over what is said and done should take into consideration the simple fact that to sell you must have a market for your goods, and if said goods are faulty, shoddy, or not worth the price or any deal is underhanded in that where any rebate is concerned said rebate will only be made known after any sale, then the market is going to become like smoke and vanish very quickly. People who have purchased a simulator from real flight/KE deserve to be treated fairly and honestly, so Realflight/KE just think on this, you can stack the shelves with all the G4 simulators until they reach bursting point, but but who is going to buy same if there is some doubt about the price you have to pay in the end. thats it Its time to get off my soapbox, I have had my moan
 
charles.16 said:
regarding the price ($199.95) and or availability, and any rebate on owners of any other of the simulator types, ie=G2, G3 G3.5 who wish to up date to G4, I think Knife edge, real flight or anyone else who has control over what is said and done should take into consideration the simple fact that to sell you must have a market for your goods, and if said goods are faulty, shoddy, or not worth the price or any deal is underhanded in that where any rebate is concerned said rebate will only be made known after any sale, then the market is going to become like smoke and vanish very quickly. People who have purchased a simulator from real flight/KE deserve to be treated fairly and honestly, so Realflight/KE just think on this, you can stack the shelves with all the G4 simulators until they reach bursting point, but but who is going to buy same if there is some doubt about the price you have to pay in the end. thats it Its time to get off my soapbox, I have had my moan
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I hear your frustration Charles and to a certain degree I share it. But, the reality is that RealFlight and KnifeEdge have a great product. That in-itself garrantees them a fairly large market. Even if no existing owners of G3 goes out and buys G4 They will most likely still have a very good selling product. It even goes a long way to keep them viable in the face of mis-managed or improper business practices ... (I'm not saying that either exists here). A good product carries a lot of weight in the market place.

I said in a previous post that for all intent and purpose, if RealFlight has a brisk selling season with G4 it's quite possible that they wouldn't even bother with a rebate offer to existing G3 owners. I was quickly and pointedly corrected by Jim Bourke that there would indeed be a rebate. My point is that a rebate is not necassarily something that RealFlight or KnifeEdge needs to offer to sell G4 or to maintain costumers. For every person complaining in some way about the introduction of G4 on these forums, there are at least two others who have stated that they're ready to buy or are buying G4 with or without any sort of rebate. That in itself should show you just how much people believe that RealFlight and KnifeEdge are the best that's available.
 
Wow I take back anything negative I may have ever said about you... :D :D :D

That post was literally right on the money.
 
opjose said:
Wow I take back anything negative I may have ever said about you... :D :D :D

That post was literally right on the money.
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I'll second that (you beat me to it actually)

That post is very straight forward no B.S. (positive or negative)

But on a side note I am leaning towards (in-favor) of the title of this thread
I've asked KE in a thread if they would create a "Designer's Corner for G4" with ZERO response from anyone. With no reply to that thread I then sent a pm to an admin asking the same thing. Again zero response. Lastly I sent a pm (to the same admin) asking a question.....well actually asking him where or who I should ask the question. (Again no response to that pm either) Very odd that they would not even reply???

Especially to the "Designer's Thread" a simple: Yes we will do it. No it's not needed (which I feel it is) or Hang in there were working on updating the forums

Sorry to sidetrack this thread.....but it does deal with KE and their communications

EDIT: KE has taken care of all of these items. Thanks KE
 
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opjose said:
Wow I take back anything negative I may have ever said about you... :D :D :D

That post was literally right on the money.
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Thanks Opjose. We may not agree about everything, but that's not a requirement for mutual respect (which is much better than the alternative).

I know I have a tendency to be blunt, but the only reason I take KE to task sometimes is that (with the exception of a few bugs that have been a personal pain in the neck to me) they have a fantastic product which I am genuinely worried will disappear if they don't get other aspects of the business right. That and the fact tha some of the choices they've made have severely affected my ability to use and/or enjoy the sim. You'll notice I've already put in an order for G4 - I don't have a problem with supporting their dev effort. I certainly don't want to see r/c sims die off.

Actually what I'd like to see is EVERY club with a donated computer and a copy of an r/c sim on it. A sim should be THE way to learn to fly. That'd only increase sales for a good sim. Think about what would need to change for this to happen though:

- EULA would not allow paid use of the sim at a club
- Donated equipment would be old. So old sims would need to be better supported

I'd also like to see any effort made by a user to create new content being used for a good 10 years (hence my rant about compatibility)

Imagine if it was actually a pleasure dealing with KE if paying customers found a problem or needed to work around things. I think maintaining a profitable company while doing this is entirely possible.
 
We're communicating everything we know. There will be a rebate. Details will be announced soon.

I know it can be hard to wait, but we're communicating what we can.

Jim
 
Thanks Adam

Adam Taylor said:
The details of the rebate are not determined by Knife Edge Software, but we will most definitely share this information with you when it is made available to us.
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Thanks Adam,

That's the first bit of news I've heard on this subject. I think most users will want support the software and take advantage of the upgrade.

Cheers,
Kurt
 
Upgrade?

Flunkn said:
Thanks Adam,
That's the first bit of news I've heard on this subject. I think most users will want support the software and take advantage of the upgrade.
Cheers,
Kurt
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Some of us are slower than others, I guess. Has anyone taken the time to put together a feature-by-feature, side-by-side comparison between G3.5 and G4 to determine just what the "upgrade" is? (I mean asiede form "water" of course). If not, I think that's what I'll do next before spending my money on what appears to be a new replacement Interlink, since mine isn't broken just yet like so many others have.
 
rjmanzuk said:
Some of us are slower than others, I guess. Has anyone taken the time to put together a feature-by-feature, side-by-side comparison between G3.5 and G4 to determine just what the "upgrade" is? (I mean asiede form "water" of course). If not, I think that's what I'll do next before spending my money on what appears to be a new replacement Interlink, since mine isn't broken just yet like so many others have.
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From what I can tell...

- Water

- "Springy" landing gear, improved ground handling

- Some new aircraft and fields (including water fields)

- Digital trims on the controller instead of analog, and the ability to select aircraft from the controller

- One or more new flying lessons (recordings). Frank Noll, Jason Shulman, Todd Bennett and John Glezellis listed on Tower Hobbies.

- Multi-player for G3.5 will fade and then vanish altogether over the next 6 months to 1 year (if not quicker), even if KE don't kill it sooner

- Every bug fix or improvement from now on will be for G4 not 3.5 (unless there's something major that needs fixing or easy to fix and KE feels particularly generous). No doubt there will soon be G4 specific addons available.

- You lose all 5 G2 addons if you have them.

Have I missed anything? I agree it's not the best value proposition for those that own 3.5 at the moment (who knows what free updates or paid addons they'll put out before G5) UNLESS you really want one or more of the above features. For me I'm really hoping ground handling is "right", and while I rarely use multiplayer I'd like to be able to do that from time to time. The flying lessons are always interesting too.

Thing is I'd rather buy it now and get a year out of the product than buy it just before G5 is announced. With the fast product cycles if you're not buying early it's almost better to wait and skip a generation.

Keep in mind I've had 2 half days at the field with non-simulated r/c aircraft in the last 3 months. Granted this is unusual but MOST of my r/c flying is on a sim.
 
Hmmmm ... is it REALLY worth it?

Well, for ME I guess it all depends on the magnitude of the G4 price credit offer for loyal G3.5 owners, and/or whether or not my Interlink craps out. At the moment, I'm really leaning toward that generation-skipping approach. To spend $200 to throw away $150 worth of add-ons just isn't attractive, considering the apparent "benefits" I've seen so far.

Has anyone seen a RECENT comparison between RF and FS ONE? The only one I've seen is about a year old, and the latter was still new-to-market. At that point, the reviewer thought it was pretty much a toss up. Maybe, just maybe, G4's arrival is an incentive to try something new?

Any thoughts on that from the RF loyalists? I'm really looking for a solid basis for sticking around, since RF is the only R/C sim I have.
 
At this price point I don't see anything better than Realflight.
I've owned several sims, from Clearview up to FSOne and Phoenix.

For those looking for plug and play and don't need to tweak their aircraft too much, then FSone and Phoenix are right up their alley.
Custom aircraft are out of the question for both.

FSONE probably best for the complete newbie, it has a Controller included, just choose a plane and go. I hate it's clunky interface, I don't know why I keep it around.
Phoenix best visual experience, but you need your own TX. This has been my "water" simulator the past few months.

Something else to consider, what type aircraft do you fly?
Buy the sim that has the aircraft you have or will be flying in the future.

I've never seen or tried AFPD or Reflex, so I cannot comment on them.

G4 seems to catch up to the visual quality of Phoenix, so from that point of view G4 would probably offer the best of current sims, of course I've yet to get my hands on it for a better evaluation, but if anything like 3.5 it will be a hit.

Frank...
 
rjmanzuk said:
Any thoughts on that from the RF loyalists? I'm really looking for a solid basis for sticking around, since RF is the only R/C sim I have.
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Any product really has to earn my "brand loyalty". The phrase "Brand loyalty is for suckers" comes to mind.

I bought RF G2 because my now brother in law owned it and I actually got to see how it worked. There's even a hobby shop here in Sydney that as of a few months ago use to demo it (albeit with the trims glued, and mode 1 which is more common here whereas I fly mode 2)....and of course there's the online demo.

The other serious commercial sims I'm aware of are:
Reflex XTR, Phoenix, FS One, Aerofly Pro Deluxe

The only one of those I ever saw demostrated is Aerofly Pro Deluxe and while it was cool flying off an aircraft carrier, it felt toyish. That's probably not a fair statement because I only got to see it for a few minutes and try it for about 2 minutes.

These sims all have their supporters and detractors and I'm intrigued but I'm just not willing to risk $200 each to try them. In terms of demos and distribution channels, RF is the best of a bad bunch. Perhaps in your area you'll have more luck having a hands on try of the sim. The G4 upgrade for me is still a better proposition. That could all change if the quality isn't up to scratch, and I know I'm not going to spend $200+ every year on r/c sims, so who knows when I'll say enough. My total spend on G2, G3.5, G4 and addons is now USD664.48 plus AUD299 (roughly USD260 at the time I think) so around USD925. That includes shipping. It's over about a 4 year period and I have all sims and addons since G2, but that's still a LOT of money. At some point I'm just going to say no I have better things to spend on.
 
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