Miss the good old days...

S

Spareparts

New member
Something is missing for me now. I think I miss the gold old days of the forum. Not the arguments or the rants, but all the RC discussions we used to have. These days I think I can classify every message as one of the following (in no particular order)...

Praise for the Software
I don't think RealFlight gets the praise it deserves - even on its own forum, but let's face it: we all know the software is great, so praise messages are boring :) .

Complaints about the Software
We have these aplenty, and most of them are justified to some extent, but they tend to be very repetitious and prone to degrading into arguments about the search feature.

Problems with the Software
This is the most tolerated form of message, and I think its great that people are getting help, but I find it ironic that this is the most supported form of forum conversation when KE plasters all over the site that the forums are not for technical support.

New Feature Requests
Here you'll either be told your new feature is silly or that it's been requested already. You may even be told to use search.

Discussions on Simulation Accuracy
These are my favorite of all the tolerated threads. Here is where I learn both more about the software and more about real life flying. The unfortunate part is that my favorite threads are always flirting with the iron fist of moderation. I wonder if I go to a RC heli forum, will they forbid discussions about simulators?


I guess I wrote this message simply to vent, because I really don't have a point or an answer. I just think its a shame that the forum boils down to being an informal technical support site with the stated purpose of not being here for technical support.
 
You may miss the RC discussions, but this forum was always supposed to be about RealFlight and Knife Edge software. Check out the very first post in the News & Announcements subforum here. There are plenty of forums devoted to real RC discussions. Obviously, people who are interested in an RC flightsim would be interested in Real RC, but KE software really has nothing to do with real RC. This forum is set up and run by them, to discuss their software.

Let's say that you want to start a forum to discuss hammers, because that is what you sell. You want all discussions to be directly related to hammers, and you state that in your forum. Then somebody comes along and wants to discuss saws, because they are also tools. But you don't sell saws, you sell hammers. Wouldn't you want the members to keep your forum about what you sell, and what you want the topic of discussion to be? Maybe a weak analogy, but I hope you understand the point I'm trying to make.

I realize I'm speaking for them, and KE may no longer feel that way. I've been around the forums since early 2002 when I got G2 for Christmas. I have seen multiple times when the admins have asked people to keep the discussion software related. Threads used to be locked for being off topic, but lately the discussions have been left open.
 
I am beginning to think all similar typed aircraft are really no different in the simulator. Just a different color of skin. The 400 size heli all fly the same, the 30,60,90 size are all similar.

War birds all seem to fly somewhat the same... the extras and variants are really no different from one another. It seems that the aircraft don't quite meet the real world of the field. I don't know what is missing. I enjoy flying both, but I can sure tell a difference. Could I be getting over the newness of the hobby and settling into something more or less routine? I have enough real birds to keep it interesting and keep changing up. Maybe it is that I feel more free to experiment at the field with engine changes, prop changes and radio changes. Can't quite put my finger on it.


Spareparts said:
Discussions on Simulation Accuracy
These are my favorite of all the tolerated threads. Here is where I learn both more about the software and more about real life flying. The unfortunate part is that my favorite threads are always flirting with the iron fist of moderation. I wonder if I go to a RC heli forum, will they forbid discussions about simulators?
Click to expand...
 
wjkssmd said:
I am beginning to think all similar typed aircraft are really no different in the simulator. Just a different color of skin. The 400 size heli all fly the same, the 30,60,90 size are all similar.

War birds all seem to fly somewhat the same... the extras and variants are really no different from one another. It seems that the aircraft don't quite meet the real world of the field. I don't know what is missing. I enjoy flying both, but I can sure tell a difference. Could I be getting over the newness of the hobby and settling into something more or less routine? I have enough real birds to keep it interesting and keep changing up. Maybe it is that I feel more free to experiment at the field with engine changes, prop changes and radio changes. Can't quite put my finger on it.
Click to expand...
I hear ya. I'm coming up on a year of RC and maybe I'm getting a little tired of it.

I don't think all the 400 heli's fly quite the same - for example I see a difference between the Trex 450 and the Blade 400, but none of them fly quite like my RL helis either. I'm not sure if its something that's not being simulated or if its just me (standing instead of sitting, different radio, no "zoom", etc.).
 
wjkssmd said:
I am beginning to think all similar typed aircraft are really no different in the simulator. Just a different color of skin. The 400 size heli all fly the same, the 30,60,90 size are all similar.
Click to expand...

I disagree... there is a very marked difference between the 30's and the 90's...

The 90's are agile but extremely stable, while the 30's are more docile and not as stable...


wjkssmd said:
War birds all seem to fly somewhat the same... the extras and variants are really no different from one another.
Click to expand...

Don't think so...

Take a Corsair and push & hold the rudder in one direction fully while in level flight... eventually it will snap roll on you much like a real Corsair is known for.

Try the same thing with say an F6F... the latter will nose down instead, but no snap...

The differences in flight characteristics and all of the plane's nuances are there, if you know where to look...

Try a knife edge with different planes, and you'll see that they react differently..

Some will roll and tuck to the belly, others will not or do the opposite.


A lot of the variants on the swaps, have been done by people who have not paid heed to needed adjustments required to tune the flight models to get the nuanced responses just right...

There is a lot more to it than just resizing a plane...

There are some excellent variants buried amoung the chaff, if you look hard.


wjkssmd said:
It seems that the aircraft don't quite meet the real world of the field. I don't know what is missing. I enjoy flying both, but I can sure tell a difference.
Click to expand...

Sure, that is to be expected... it's a sim after all, so it will never feel exactly like the real deal... but all things considered G4.5 is the best thing going in terms of getting things right...

wjkssmd said:
Could I be getting over the newness of the hobby and settling into something more or less routine? I have enough real birds to keep it interesting and keep changing up. Maybe it is that I feel more free to experiment at the field with engine changes, prop changes and radio changes. Can't quite put my finger on it.
Click to expand...

You have sooo many more things coming into play at the field, that keeps the hobby interesting for you....

Everything from a bug getting in your face while flying, to friends, winds, animals, etc.

The sim does not duplicate this...

BTW: This is one reason those static photofields are so passe... give me leaves blowing accross the grass, bugs, fireflies, and that new Nvidia 3D steroescopic graphics monitor system for G5.0 anyday...

Now if the sim could only simulate the crash of an RC jet we had last year, causing the arrival of county fire services, along with the arrival of the Med-Evac.... :D

Great drama...
 
Op, you weren't flying the jet? Hope not. I hope the club doesn't get a bill from the Med-Evac business. Man, that would tie-up dues for a few years...

I'm assuming it caught something on fire?

Flying the RC pulse jet (double whammy) was as close to flying the real deal to me. The thing is so fast that I'm actually shaking and sweating after a successful flight and landing.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v...lator/?action=view&current=Twin_Pulse_Jet.jpg

Very stressful, even though it is just a sim. Can imagine what the real-deal must do to newbie RC jet pilots.

Charles
 
When I say, they all fly the same... I am saying 450=400, and each size is comparable, not 450 vs 90. RC is not the challenge it once was. Not too many near misses anymore. Things are smoother, my heart is not racing as the plane rockets straight down. I am not picking on the sim, I think they are great for what they do. Lately, I have been contemplating getting my ticket updated, some more training, maybe instrument and multi-engine. I got back into this for my love of flying.

Spareparts said:
I hear ya. I'm coming up on a year of RC and maybe I'm getting a little tired of it.

I don't think all the 400 heli's fly quite the same - for example I see a difference between the Trex 450 and the Blade 400, but none of them fly quite like my RL helis either. I'm not sure if its something that's not being simulated or if its just me (standing instead of sitting, different radio, no "zoom", etc.).
Click to expand...
 
How close a simulator gets to reality without being it?
Pilot are pilots, programmers are programmers. You may have pilot-programmers in the lot but the simulation remains all about sensations. It is fairly easy to make it look real but to make it feel real you need to reproduce parameters beyond what is known by pilots, programmers or even physicians. Needless to say that is a heck of a challenge.

Think of all the race car simulators out there. Grand Prix Legend was released in 1998. I don’t think anyone yet has achieved the level of feel-real GPL was able to deliver 10 years ago. Why? I whish I knew the answer – Somehow they nailed it. Today’s world have better programmers, better machines, better programming techniques why is it so hard to do it? Maybe it is has something to do with the huge community contributing to the years of tweaking and polishing.

Humans unless really lucky, can’t get it right at the first attempt. If you keep trying to reinvent the wheel, each iteration will be crooked. In the software industry I call this the .0 syndrome. Us customers, we encourage it by spending more money on clearly visible new features. Small subtle improvements don’t sell. Big flashy full of bugs new features does.

I also miss the days when real leather shoes were a perfect blend of comfort and durability. Now they just need to look good. We are brainwashed to endorse frequent changes. Well, change is only good if it is shifting to a “better” position. Change itself, to the contrary of what most people now thinks doesn’t mean good.

KE is driven by both passion and business. By pressing KE to implement new this and new that. We force them to follow the money.

We are told when we are young. “And the guy got 3 whishes… Only 3.”
When we grow up: “Be careful what you whish for”

Our beloved RealFlight product is in a small but growing market niche. Our only chance to get it where we want is to have a strong community. We are sharing a hobby that is all about skills, fun and adrenaline. RealFlight is a learning tool, a toy and a valuable contribution to our hobby.

Here’s my contribution to the KE simulator forum. From now on, I will do everything in my limited human power to reproduce here the level of respect, skill and fun we can find on real world RC fields.

As a community, let work together to make RealFlight the next GPL of RC-Simulators.

Spareparts - You have my full support.

Happy 2009. :D
 
I wish you well on your Utopian ideals... I am pleased to see some others follow my lead on new members. I will try to do better... at our local field, we have some of the same personal animosity... so I guess the sim needs some of that. :) :)

Yaff said:
Here’s my contribution to the KE simulator forum. From now on, I will do everything in my limited human power to reproduce here the level of respect, skill and fun we can find on real world RC fields.
Click to expand...
 
wjkssmd said:
When I say, they all fly the same... I am saying 450=400, and each size is comparable, not 450 vs 90. RC is not the challenge it once was.
Click to expand...

That indicates you have graduated into the ranks of an "Intermediate to advanced" pilot.

At this point we start focusing our attention to flying routines, boxes, etc. in a "squared off" manner... and/or other things that gets the heart pumping again, e.g. racing, etc...

wjkssmd said:
Not too many near misses anymore. Things are smoother, my heart is not racing as the plane rockets straight down.
Click to expand...

Yup, sounds like you're doing well.

Gone are the days of shaky knees, as fun as that used to be...
 
I have to agree with you Opjose. When I first started over a year ago it was as if I had never flown in my boyhood. Shaking, nervousness, hesitating to try new maneuvers. I've gotten to the point where I am comfortable with my skill of flight and concentrate on understanding each flight characteristic of the planes I enjoy. I have found myself getting bored with an aircraft before the thing runs out of fuel and the sim allows me to switch aircraft much faster than at an airfield. It has also brought a new level of interest in scale details. Learning how to create techniques in the sim based off physical techniques allows me to understand and appreciate models that I see at the airfield. I am sure I will change as things evolve. For example... the float planes wore off on me after about 1-2 months of playing around with it all I'm starting to get interested in it again. Dunno why but its fun!
 
The first time I read someone saying that a group wasn't as good as the good old days was in 1983 on one of the news groups. Having just gotten on the internet in 1982, I thought it was my fault! :)

However, now that I've seen hundreds of these over the years, I guess people's interests and forums drift of over the years and people coming and going is natural.

As for getting tried of RC in a year, my father joined the AMA in 1939 and hasn't gotten tired yet. His suggestion might be that today's RC is too easy with ARFs and ready-made receivers etc. (He used to make his own receivers - with tubes!) I think there might be something to that and my plan is to move from ARFs to kits and scratch-builts if/when I start finding things to be too easy.
 
I think that I am bored sitting inside, when I really want to fly outside. The wind and cold are nipping that in the bud and this week does not look any better. Flying the sim is just not enough...when you know only the real thing will do.

BTW Yaff... I think you have the right spirit... It only take one to get things going.
 
Josh 0987 said:
Seems like KE dumbed down RFG4.5 for GMA Integrated chipsets.... Yay! :eek:
Click to expand...
Your post is off topic for this thread, but just so it's clear to everybody: we did nothing of the sort. The graphics on all other cards should be unaffected by this change. We simply made it possible for Intel graphics adapters to run the sim. They will not run it as well as a graphics card that is actually designed for this type of application, but that is to be expected.
 
Ryan Douglas said:
Your post is off topic for this thread, but just so it's clear to everybody: we did nothing of the sort. The graphics on all other cards should be unaffected by this change. We simply made it possible for Intel graphics adapters to run the sim. They will not run it as well as a graphics card that is actually designed for this type of application, but that is to be expected.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, though my post would go under "Complaints about the Software"

I just didn't want to see such a great simulator dummed down for the cheap Integrated chipsets, that's all.

But since it has been clarified my above post is not valid.
 
wjkssmd said:
I think that I am bored sitting inside, when I really want to fly outside. The wind and cold are nipping that in the bud and this week does not look any better. Flying the sim is just not enough...when you know only the real thing will do.
Click to expand...

Oh so true!!!

Now can we please just skip ahead to flying season?
 
Say what?

opjose said:
Oh so true!!!

Now can we please just skip ahead to flying season?
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Sorry, but I couldn't resist ... :eek:
San Diego weather:
81°F
Current: Clear
Wind: NW at 4 mph
Humidity: 18%
Tue
Clear
83°F | 56°F
Wed
Clear
79°F | 56°F
Thu
Clear
76°F | 54°F
Fri
Clear
76°F | 54°
 
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