Physic Problems I've found in G6

3-DMan

3-DMan

New member
Hi everyone, yesterday I picked up my RF6 upgrade after being sort of absent from Realflight since January. After installing RF6 and transfering all of my custom models over, updated to the latest version, and eventually got an in depth look at the new physics for the helis and planes. The first thing I did was fly my varient of the Extra 330sc I had set up as a 35% Freestyle plane. Everything felt a little bit more locked in as far as tracking which was a plus. I then rolled to knife edge and did a hard push to see how the plane whould react, and it did pretty well on carrying the intertia through and not snap stalling out of the air. I started to 3D it and it felt really odd. The snaps looked like they were being cross controlled and the same thing happened on a stall spin. I changed aircraft from the stock Yak54 3D to the P51 and they did the same thing.

I'm pretty disappointed at the aerobatic physics on the airplanes. Definitely a backwards step in the stall characteristics overall. The main problem is Snap rolls and Stall turns. It looks like you are cross controlling. I eventually figured out what the problem was by observing how the autorataion was commencing with elevator, rudder, and aileron. I then tried it with just aileron and rudder which looked much better, but made no sense at all. The elevator was controling the depth of the snap and not the Rudder like a real RC model does. Elevator controls the speed of the snap not depth. For example when you induce a positive snap roll once your wing is stalled out and the plane is autorotating, you can speed up or slow down the speed of the auto rotaion by giving down elevator. You can also change the size of the conical rotaion with more rudder input thus controling the "depth" of the snap. This is not the case in RF6.

With this physics error on aerobatic planes it makes the elevator cancel out the rudder entirely during the snap, making the snap or spin look like a crosscontorled wall. The stall physics on the airplanes really shouldn't have changed from G5.5. Maybe twaeked to be more aggressive, but not completely overhalled. I hope this brings the problem to attention and can be helpful to a patch.


Feel free to leave comments,

Matt
 
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My thoughts on heliphysics:


I find 3D helicopters in G6 to fly very strange, the feel on the sticks is nothing like any real heli I have ever flown.

Flybar helicopters: The way they react to stick input is extremely off. They flip and roll very slow with settings I had on my real helicopter and on G5.5.
The initial response is too numb with very active settings also.

They track too good now, there is no pitchy fast forward flight anymore. G5.5 and previous versions did a great job of replicating flybars, you had to stay on top of them to keep the model flying accurately, now it just feels robotic and requires no extra effort at all.

Flybarless helicopters: The initial response is still too slow, no acceleration feeling at all, it feels as if the model was already flipping as soon as I make the input.
They also feel too robotic, and now that the gyro menu has been severely dumbed down, tuning is very one sided, more preferable to a beginner.

Fast collective and cyclic input to change directions is still too slow, feels as if the rotor head stalls at high speed when you attempt to change direction.

During piro funnels or any other piro manuever, the sticks suddenly feel like expo is added, the sticks should feel just as sensitive as they would when the helicopter is not in high speed motion. In fact, sensitivity increases on my real helicopter as I fly faster.


In general: The rotor heads load up too easily, especially on nitros, I find RF G5.5 to replicate engine bogging perfectly and its easily tunable.



I feel the only some helicopter pilots like RF6 more is because the stock models are now flyable. In G5.5 the stock models tail speed was un controllable because of an error in the gyro menu. Who ever edits the physics for the stock model did not take out the setting that caused this.

If it were up to me I would go back to the RF G5.5 helicopter physics and improve them from there, honestly there are a few things that could have been added to 5.5 and had those been added i feel the physics would feel extremely realistic.

I can easily practice my XFC routine and known manuevers on G5.5 and translate them directly to my real helicopter considering they fly indentical enough to where every manuever feels native to me.

On the other hand RF6 just feels completely foreign. I would fly RF6 only for an entire week, then go to the field to practice, all of the flying on RF6 actually took me backwards, I had to get 10 flights in before I got used to the feeling of a real RC helicopter.



Again I strongly recomend going back to the RF G5.5 helicopter physics and gyro menu and tweak it from there, there is so little to change in comparison to RF6 physics wise.
 
Mikey did you ever talk to Jim about all of this?

He asked you to let him talk to you but you've never reported if you have.
 
That's very interesting what you are saying about helis.

I am very likely far below your flying level (just starting to do 3D) never had 5.5 version, but I was heavy user of Phoenix sim for more than a year.
I find RF6 far superior to the other sim when it comes to physics, although I did notice some things you pointed out, mainly not enough of engine bogging and still too slow reaction to direction change (which seems to be a problem in all sims I've tried)
If you are saying it can be improved even further, then I can't really wait :)
 
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I felt the same regarding the overall feeling on helis of RF6, and expected quite much due to the fact the pros tested the sim. After doing some quick edits, the helis felt better but not as real as the previous versions. I've got G2 and G3 back to compare, and I was right remembering the G2-G3 have been one of the best so far regarding physics. I frankly believe the "realflight feel" in the code was somewhat lost in the versions after G3.

I then flew the Synergy E6 & E7 models included in the latest upgrade of RF6 (042), and those helis fly decent after some quick edits. So far, the best flying helis the sim has.

David
 
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3-D Man put it more eloquently and clearly than I could, but I agree that in 3d "post-stall" type flying, 5.5 is much closer to "real". I do think that RF6 has a much better feel in normal sport-type flying, but with helis and post-stall fixed wing flight, I think it is a step back from 5.5.
 
Another thing I want to add is that Main and Tail rotor blades are way too quiet.


The sound of the blades are very important for reference of motor power, quickness of cyclic and collective.

When i attempt to fly with headphones with my real heli, it feels strange because I cant hear the heli.


The blades need to be much louder. G5.5 was pretty good.
 
@mikeymike21.....I just checked the participant list at XFC this year and you don't seem to be included? Last chance competition maybe? I was so looking forward to seeing you give Bobby Watts, Nick, and Jamie a good spanking on the field this year.:rolleyes:
 
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