Pre-purchase compatibility/spec... check

N40NL

N40NL

New member
An ounce of prevention is worth a ton of migraines...

From the REALFLIGHT 9.5 RC FLIGHT SIMULATOR Manual PDF (400 pages, Really!)… Optimal System - For best graphical performance: Dual Core 2.4GHz CPU w/2 GB RAM, 3D Accelerated Video w/512 MB dedicated video memory.

I’ve recently retired and am considering getting back into flying, but I’m first scoping out building my Dream Machine computer and want to see if those plans are compatible with the newer versions of RF. What I have in mind is an AMD Ryzen 9 7950X (16 core, 4.5/5.7GHz., integrated Radeon 3D graphics, last gen, not whats in the new discrete GPU’s, using system memory) based system using 32GB 6000 DDR-5 RAM, 2TB M.2 drive and a 32” monitor or 48-55” TV (4K for either). I’m wanting to do some photo and video editing and prefer spending towards a top CPU than an overpriced GPU that’ll be outdated in a year or so. I’m not building it for RF and internet surfing, it will do both and more. My goal is better than average performance in all respects, I don’t consider gaming respectable, but Sims are.. :cool:

For a Re-enrty vehicle I’m looking at the TH 32” Crack Yak, their power system/servo package and 600ma lipo packs. I’ve flown stick balsa and 2 cycle profile planes that still required a flying field but foam with electric doing 3D is out of my comfort zone. Is the TH 32” Crack Yak modeled in or available for RF?

Enter RF to save time and planes. I prefer to use the Interlink Elite controller with RF as it matches my Futaba 6EX-2.4GHz system, fresh out of storage, which appears it works with RF v8 – EVO if I’ve been reading correctly here and RC Groups.

Wikipedia claims Steam is a Cloud Gaming provider… IF any version of RF has to work exclusively through being online with Steam, I Don’t Want it. IF, as Wiki and other sites claim (not outright but the info is there to put together), I’m bound to your and Steam’s end user agreements, that can be changed at any time forcing me to stop using RF, with no refund or recourse, I Don’t Want it. I just bought a CD/DVD/Blu-Ray Player/Writer and 100 25GB BD-R’s for archival backups of pics and videos (yeah I’m Olds-Cool) that will work great to install older version of RF DVD’s if you refuse to currently offer them, and the above is true.

So Will have any problems (Compatibility, DirectX9, Crack Yak, End User… Other) buying RF new, OR should I just look for a DVD version OR other software elsewhere?

If its compatibility issues that you can’t or won’t overcome I’d be willing to minimally re-spec my planned system.

On RC Groups I’ve been reading too many rationalizations, from what appear to be employees, that RF is Good Enough. I don’t need AAA Ultra Gaming Uber Realistic graphics, BUT not one customer will complain if RF was capable of them, and most, if not all, would praise the graphics being more realistic.

Mike
Good enough, isn’t good enough if you have and stick to standards,
and/or want to be respected.
Good Enough is for people who don’t care about their products.
 
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One would hope that Ryan from Horizon can give a more definitive answer (or a user here using your processor with integrated graphics), but...there have been some large issues with discreet Raedon graphics cards and RF. Generally a specific driver patch seems to be working for many. Using the integrated version might provide more of a challenge, but how much unknown to me. You would be well served to by a low to mid range Nvidia based separate card for your graphics needs. Those just work. These days, RF doesn't require a lot of horsepower, but if you will be doing video and photo editing too, a separate card will make a big change in the ability of your dream machine. Even a lower end card will greatly reduce the bottleneck not having one would produce for all of the things you named. In many respects you are specing a thoroughbred, and forcing it to always be hobbled. Don't ever expect it to be able to run 4K video without a good-very good discrete card.

There are several variations of the 55" Crack Yak out there on the swap pages. Bigger than yours, but until you can use RF, unknown as to how comparable to yours they may be. Only you can judge. It is very possible to "edit" them to mimic the flight behaviors of yours exactly, if needed. The on screen appearance does not change (except for perceived size), but the flight characteristics do. The downside is that there can be a learning curve as to how-to-do-it, and what all the parameters mean. So not a quick-and-easy process if the existing are not "good enough".

The latest version of Real Flight is only available via Steam. You have to shop the used market, or old inventory from dealers, to find disks of older versions. It may be a hassle to get them authenticated (CD product keys, etc.) to run on your computer, due to not only Horizon buying Knife Edge but the move to Steam. It can be done, but is not as easy as it was.

Once installed from Steam, you do not have to be on-line with it to use the software. It can be a process to get Steam to stop trying to run and connect to its on-line services, but not being connected does not kill the use of the software.

The Interlink Elite will work. It is missing several secondary functions the latest has, but all the primary flight controls are fine.

As discussed in other threads, RF tried a few years ago to really modernize its software (Real Flight X). But that brought howls from the low spec users, who refused to buy if their older systems couldn't run it. Chatter is they are working on an improved version, but no word as to how far down the road that may be. It is a huge undertaking to rewrite it all, especially when they have to cater to the low end and high end users at the same time.
 
Thanks for the reply.
I didn’t make myself clear on the 4K … I’m currently running a 1080P laptop on an older 40” 4K TV on my desk and its doing the up-scaling very well (I’m 65 and my eyes aren't as good as they were at 18) at its 110 ppi, and even it does a good job of up-scaling text to 4K (smooth at 24” distance) so up-scaling moving video should look much better where you don’t perceive the fine details of static text. So the Ryzen’s internal GPU (which MaxPC mag. Compared to a rough equivalent of a last gen AMD 6500 discreet GPU and is much better than whats in this AMD based HP laptop) won’t be working 4x harder, unless RF won’t let you set its output resolution and quality like even the low end/older games do.

I don’t want to buy a Nivida GPU if I end up doing so after testing on the internal one, their recent policy to jack up their MSRP to bitcoin scalper/COVID levels doesn’t sit well with me. AMD has dropped its new 7600 GPU to $270 (and Intel’s new Arc line of GPU are also well below Nividia for more performance) and its highly recommended for good 3D gaming at 1080p/60Hz, which is much more demanding than running RF.

And according to Tony Northrup, who publishes books on DSLR photography, the GPU has no noticeable effect on PhotoShop rendering. DaVinci Resolve for video is another matter, BUT I don’t intend to do much of that, and with 16 cores/32 threads at up to 5.7 GHz. the CPU can be chewing on rendering video in the background while I do other (non-RF) things. I don’t usually buy high end computer parts, but everyone needs a Dream Machine once in their life, and at 65 it’ll probably outlast me.

The point of getting a good Sim is to learn/see if I can advance enough in 3D flying Before buying and crashing real planes. As the 32” CY appears to be the most popular in that series I expected it to be modeled before other sizes. Its disappointing it wasn’t.


And, new innovations in software need to be across the board innovations that make the older versions obsolete, not just increasing resolutions and throwing in a few more features, even if it requires up-grading hardware that's 10 years old and wasn’t top of the line when it was new. X obviously didn’t do that and doomed itself to fail. IF the current RF was delivering graphics at modern gaming levels (forget Ray-Tracing, its still a novelty), I’d happily buy a discreet GPU. BUT if I can do other harder workload tasks to my satisfaction without an add-on GPU, and RF doesn’t meet modern gaming standards, it appears that RF NEEDS its graphics engine upgraded.

A craftsman doesn’t blame his tools and can get art using junk tools, but a journeyman NEEDS good tools so he’s not fighting them while learning his trade. Craftsmen don't need Sims, we Journeymen do.

Mike
 
RF has gone down the path with Steam and isn't going back. Steam takes a huge piece of the sale price, but Steam makes life easier for the developers in several ways. First, they handle distribution and even installation - no more DVD's or digital downloads of setup files, and no more questions about the installation phase of the process. Second, they handle license management and enforcement. Steam handles key distribution and ensures every copy of the program that's running is licensed. A plus here is that when you use RF with Steam, you can install it on as many computers as you like as long as you only use it on one at a time. Third, Steam has a platform for micro-transactions or DLC. RF has started offering add-on aircraft and flying sites as DLC. You can buy them individually or in quarterly or annual packs. Finally, Steam has evolved into a large online store for PC games in general. Getting your product in the Steam store catalog gets more eyes on it and adds the ability to purchase and use it immediately, 24 hours a day.

I'm not thrilled about Steam either and getting a third party involved in managing the software I own. I gave up on PC gaming for the most part years ago when Steam was invented as a way to enforce licensing on CD or DVD-based games. The idea of needing to connect to the Internet all the time just to play the games and being monitored like that was a total showstopper for me, not to mention that we were just getting out of the dial-up stage of Internet access.

Fast forward a couple of decades, I still don't like it even though the constant monitoring has become the norm even for the operating system. I built a computer for Steam and RF that could turn into a gaming computer someday, but the primary goal was to keep Steam out of my main computer.

The last time I tried to install RF 9.5 from either DVD's or a downloaded image of a DVD, it was a total mess. The problem was that the keys used for code signing had expired, so anti-virus software is inclined to block parts of the installation process. A handful of files get flagged as unsafe by the AV software and cause the installation to fail. (Full story here.) I can certainly understand why the makers of RF chose to go with Steam for future releases.

Evolution is only available through Steam. 9.5S is the Steam version of 9.5, with a few more aircraft included IIRC. Version 9.5 is the last version that was available on DVD.
 
Like you it rubs me the wrong way to have MS, Google, FaceBook... (whatever) do the 1984/Orwellian monitoring and trying to control our lives, and that's my main reluctance to using Steam, or any form of cloud based service. When I got this laptop one of the first things I did was to uninstall OneDrive. But as you point out there are advantages IF they reign in their all controlling/All Monitoring aspects.

Mike
(Winston Smith) :alien:
 
"For a Re-enrty vehicle I’m looking at the TH 32” Crack Yak, their power system/servo package and 600ma lipo packs." I haven't bought anything yet and I'm not married to the idea of the CY. What TH 32" 3D planes (or other brands that fly as well and are as durable), if any, have been modeled for RF?
To me one of the points of 3D is you keep it up close and personal so a larger model isn't needed, and as I've been reading there are trade offs and you typically loose some durability going larger.

Mike
 
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Good luck on your PC journey. I certainly won't debate specs, since you have done so much in depth research. I'm on the same road, as my current is showing it's age, and the next could be the last (or next to last) PC I get, so it should be a good one!
Don't get too married into needing to have an exact replica of a particular plane in RF. Even in real life, exact same copies of the same plane behave differently. It's all about developing the eye/hand coordination, and being able to change it dynamically as conditions (plane, weather, etc) change. So a variety of "close enough" planes in RF IS actually better than trying to eliminate every possible variable, which can't be done in real life at the field.
Me? I love my Flex Innovations QQ Extra as a practice plane, but a full on version isn't in RF either. Bigger, and a bit more cost than the CY. Using a variety of Extras, Caps, etc. in RF has not been an impediment, and has been an asset, to actually flying the Extra.
 
Thanks I'll keep that in mind. I just thought it'd be nice for a change to actually fly a plane in Sim and IRL.

As for research, its what I do to TRY and minimize problems/Migraines. :cool:


Mike
Cogito Ergo Sum
(I Think Therefore I Am - Descartes)
 
N40NL said:
...
I don’t want to buy a Nivida GPU if I end up doing so after testing on the internal one, their recent policy to jack up their MSRP to bitcoin scalper/COVID levels doesn’t sit well with me. ...
Click to expand...

NVIDIA SLASHES GPU PRICES


Getting more realistic, under $300

BTW be Very Leary of buying a used GPU from someone you don't know, it could have been worked to death mining.

Mike
 
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My now very old GTX 960 is way more than enough to run RF at 1440 with all the options turned on. It's no longer even ranked in benchmarks for graphics cards. It does struggle with VR. New are commanding what seem to be very high prices ($300-$400), but that likely is due to scarcity of an out of production card. But when shopping, if you can find a deal on something in the same performance range, or even slightly better....
 
From what I’ve read 2/3 of gamer’s are still using 1080, and apparently your 960 is still very popular for that resolution.

I found this database showing relative performance (put cursor in Relative Performance window and scroll)
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-gtx-960.c2637

Since your 960 runs RF fine in 1440, which is considered 2K, then approximately 2X its performance SHOULD run RF in 4K at the same high quality settings.

A bit of searching found…

nVidia GeForce:
RTX 970 4GB – under $180 – 1.58X 960 performance
RTX 3050 8GB - under $250 - 2.35X
RTX 2060 Super 8GB – abt $300 - 3.06X

AMD Raedon:
RX 6400 4GB - abt $150 - 1.32X
RX 7600 8GB - $270 msrp – 3.95X

Intel ARC:
A380 6GB - under $150 – 1.3X
A750 8GB - abt $230 – 3.27X (New price $199)

I didn't include Chinese ripoff cards in those prices

So for 1440 you can get a GPU card for $150 or less, and still have a bit of headroom for future improvements in the RF graphics engine, or for $270 get a RX 7600 newest gen AMD card with plenty of future proofing. But there will be a few bumps in that highway until they get the DX9 compatibility with newer cards problems ironed out.

Intel appears to be working on that with their A7XX family's newest drivers. And its still dropping its cards prices so in the long run the A750 could be your best bang for the $$$ and long term future-proof, especially IF Intel gets its DX9 support fixed. 4K anyone? :cool:
https://game.intel.com/story/intel-arc-graphics-directx9/

Mike
(Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day, Fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way...)
 
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