Rockwell Space Shuttle Orbiter with Boosters

[mwilson914]

Since I don't have a real official build thread going on anything for 6 yet, I thought I would give this a go.

One challenge...

How would a person go about setting up the landing gears. The default position is in the retracted position. The shuttle will be setup on the landing pad initially, so I assume the landing gears will be in the down position no matter what and you'll just need to flip the switch back and fourth to get them retracted before launch. Another thing is don't set them up at all with the proper naming conventions and add moveable pods to animate the gear doors and landing gears. I don't like the sound of that one.

 

[jeffpn]

Looks good. Nice to see you back with a build thread. See if you can finish it before we go to the moon again!!

 

[mwilson914]

To Jeff:

It will probably be out a couple years before the Sky Crane is released.

In all seriousness though, my favorite part of the Space Shuttle model is the dual purpose rudder/speed break. Of all things that can get you excited about a space shuttle model for the Sim, it takes me to become overly fascinated with the split rudder design. There is definitely something wrong with me.

 

[td9cowboy]

Now we know where you were going with all those little Estes rocket experiments including the chute. Very Cool!! What scale are we talking about for the shuttle itself?

 

[willsonman]

Well, what says there only has to be one set of gear? Say one set breaks off due to pure awesomeness of 3d maneuvers and the shear awesome nature of the maneuvers breaks them off in an awesome display... then poof... out comes a second set... on a different channel... these ones are awesome proof.

 

[mwilson914]

Now we know where you were going with all those little Estes rocket experiments including the chute. Very Cool!! What scale are we talking about for the shuttle itself?

1:40 is the scale of the UHS Space Shuttle shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qGjf_qX5ZM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I pasted that link from my phone's YouTube player so hopefully it works on the PC. And, yes this is where I was going with the Estes Rockets tests. I can't explain the anvil however, as it was just fun to do and see if I could make it visually realistic. I have an AV of that one which looks like the ones launched on the Science Channel.

 

[mwilson914]

Well, what says there only has to be one set of gear? Say one set breaks off due to pure awesomeness of 3d maneuvers and the shear awesome nature of the maneuvers breaks them off in an awesome display... then poof... out comes a second set... on a different channel... these ones are awesome proof.

Willsonman, I am glad you have been my right hand guy on these rockets. I can't wait to get the first shuttle into the Sim. Your idea on the gears sounds like it should work. I need gear components for the launch pad so the shuttle will sit upright for launch so we'll see how everything works out.

 

[willsonman]

I think what you will mostly run into is a name game. NUP values as well will confuse RF which gear is which. You may want to strategize with pods just to have a good backup plan in case things don't go the way you want them to.

 

[mwilson914]

A few shots of the current progress.

 

[mwilson914]

The collision meshes are almost done for every possible part. There are a few details which still need created and I need to figure out how I'm going to make the launch pad look.

I'm also really wanting to use springy gears for a scale landing, but I can't do that if I have to use moveable pods for the gears since I need the shuttle to spawn upright with the launch pad planted firmly on the ground. I will most likely create something without landing gears that lands on the belly for initial tests. The real world RC Space Shuttle I'm inspired by, lands on it's belly. However, I am Matt Wilson, and I am persistant (at driving myself crazy) so we'll see what happens. Besides, I have willsonman backing me up with physics.

I can't wait to get this imported into the sim. I have a .tga assigned now so it won't be long to get some test EA's created.

Also, I am aware the gears and gear doors are open.

 

[fender1]

Ooooo Ahhhhh, looks awsome. Keep up the good work!!!!

 

[mwilson914]

I've been looking at additional real world pictures of the space shuttle which re-enforces key characteristics I want to achieve with my model. There are a few things I want to re-work, but overall I'm satisfied with the dimensions. The initial 3 view I was working from had major flaws I only found out later on, so the dimensions were off right from the beginning which is why I recreated the fuselage once and the wings twice.

I admit I was also rushing things initially on the space shuttle because it was the week of our winter storms and during the time we actually had power it was constantly flickering on and off for many days. I completely lost work I had done on the shuttle on four separate occasions, but I got a lot accomplished despite these issues.

I will be touching up the tips of the wings to be more accurate and I finally have an excellent reference for the bottom of the fuselage and wings. This allows me to accurately recreate the positioning of the wheel wells, gear doors and landing gears.

I am thinking the default texture for this model will be 4096x4096 which I know will cause some people importing issues while making the .dds files. I just think it would work out well to achieve the level of detail on all the parts ranging from the Orbiter, external tank and solid rocket boosters, and the landing pad. The shuttle will be also created as a separate EA without the launch pad, external tank and boosters. This version will have it's own graphics re-sized and re-positioned to utilize the available space on the .tga.

The reason to create a separate EA of the Orbiter is to have the best flying model possible to glide into a landing. It may be bungee launched or take off from the runway or both. I'm not sure.

I am also considering a separate static airport object with a highly detailed launch pad which will be it's own model. Who knows, I could end up going all out on this one by making a functional space shuttle crawler transporter on it's way with the shuttle to the launch pad. I've never created animated airport objects before, so this will be interesting.

 

[mwilson914]

...as an added note, the initial EA I was playing with last night flies horrible and doesn't launch very well. I obviously haven't had time to really work on the physics, so that will change to some degree and I'm sure Willsonman will add his magic to the AV.

However, If I compare my model in the sim to the Estes model rocket I had back in 1987/1988, it launches remarkably similar and hits the ground immediately after takeoff with the rocket still burning just like my Estes rocket did. It was a horrible flying model which was eventually loaded with crushed sparklers and a couple crushed up model rocket engines. It didn't survive.

 

[mwilson914]

Willsonman,

I'll send you an email with some additional thoughts. You will most likely love them since you seem to have the same excitement as I have for this project.

 

[Maj. Numbskully]

I am thinking the default texture for this model will be 4096x4096 which I know will cause some people importing issues while making the .dds files. I just think it would work out well to achieve the level of detail on all the parts ranging from the Orbiter, external tank and solid rocket boosters, and the landing pad. The shuttle will be also created as a separate EA without the launch pad, external tank and boosters. This version will have it's own graphics re-sized and re-positioned to utilize the available space on the .tga.
.

dds errors be dammed ...there are workarounds

You have a nak for picking large aircraft B-1, B-58, Skycrane and that requires smaller parts on the map to fit them all in ....without a 4096 CS any kind of detail is out the door from the get-go
detailed rivets for example really cant be done below 2-3 pixels with out them looking like squares
If you go larger than 2-3 PX on large aircraft they are out of scale to the aircraft and start to look like they belong an a battle ship .....look At KEs Skycrane to see what I mean
on your average single seater I usually make the rivets 4-6 pixels on a 4096 depending on where on the aircraft they are placed (wing roots typically have larger rivets than on the rest or the wing)

 

[mwilson914]

In the event I do actually attempt to make a dynamic AP object of the Space shuttle Crawler, I thought about some issues to be overcome.

First...We'll keep things simple and want no collision meshes so that each AP object has accurate shaped collision surfaces.

There appears to be 56 shoes per track:

From that picture their unique shape gives me an initial assessment of how many triangles each track shoe requires and that magic number is 90 initially. From that estimate I do the math.

56 shoes per track (this number could actually be a couple more but we'll leave it at this for now) multiplied by 90 triangles= 5,040 triangles just for the track shoes alone. There are two sets of tracks per corner of the crawler, so that brings the polygon count to 40,320 triangles--There is a lot more to the model than just track shoes.

The way to do this is by multiple AP objects working in unison to complete the illusion. It would take a lot of work, but it won't stop me from trying.

 

[mwilson914]

I got it working more correctly!!! Both Versions.

I got the rocket booster version gliding really well and the landing gear version doesn't feel too different now, so it's just a matter of having the two because I can't have landing gears function on the rocket booster version.

 

[brields]

(spam)Is it done yet? Is it done yet?

 

[mwilson914]

I figured out the issue with the landing gears and launching with the boosters attached, so that all works now. I did find that the physics gets confused with the split rudder dual purpose air brake design. It acts as if only the right rudder is deflected when in air brake mode. I checked and it is working properly in the physics model. It looks cool on the ground, but doesn't work as it should, so I may need to eliminate this feature. I will send it to KE since it is technically a bug, but I understand I push the sim way past it's limits sometimes. I mean, I am the one that made an anvil for the sim.

 

[jeffpn]

I mean, I am the one that made an anvil for the sim.

Yes you did. After I made an anvil for the sim!