Trident Redux

Thank you for trying! "The best you can do" is pretty darn good so far - on ALL your aircraft! To me, it seems that you might be too hard on yourself. Will that shading be TOO bad when flying? Or is it just bad in the editor screens? Is it a point source vs diffuse lighting issue?
 
maybe when you cut them out, it messes with the normals of the polygons. but i bet you already knew that. I'm just thinking "out-text"... just throwing ideas out.
 
I tried it again and went a different route and it looks good this time. I did the left side so I still need to do the right side. Here's three pictures so you can see it but of course the left side will be mostly hidden by the muffler.

Trident 34.jpgTrident 35.jpgTrident 36.jpg
 
space boy said:
maybe when you cut them out, it messes with the normals of the polygons. but i bet you already knew that. I'm just thinking "out-text"... just throwing ideas out.
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That could very well be the problem but I don't know much about them or how to fix it if it was them.
 
Looks GREAT! Can you do the dished out side of the front scoop forward of the air outlets, rather than a flat side all the way to the scoop, too? That would make the scoop look more like an open shark's mouth too, even though it will be partially hidden by the muffler on that side? I think that would add a lot to the effect especially on the other side.
 
Bill Stuntz said:
Thank you for trying! "The best you can do" is pretty darn good so far - on ALL your aircraft! To me, it seems that you might be too hard on yourself. Will that shading be TOO bad when flying? Or is it just bad in the editor screens? Is it a point source vs diffuse lighting issue?
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Stuff like that will normally only be seen in the editor, which of course is the only place it's important since you can't see it in the air. So that's why I don't add stuff I can't make look good in the editor. But sometimes there's little stuff I let go.
 
Bill Stuntz said:
Looks GREAT! Can you do the dished out side of the front scoop forward of the air outlets, rather than a flat side all the way to the scoop, too? That would make the scoop look more like an open shark's mouth, too. I think that would add a lot to the effect.
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You're talking about the shark mouth area, right? I've already worked on that three times so I'm sorry but I don't seem to be able to make it. Would you accept something that didn't look as good? Meaning the shape wouldn't be the same as yours but it would at least have some definition there.
 
As I said, all you can do is the best you can do. The curves in that area are very complex going around the corner into the scoop, and I can't imagine how you can draw them. If you can't make it work, maybe painting it on will be enough. What you've done so far certainly captures the Trident's spirit. I'm amazed.
 
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The truth is if I don't have the shark mouth area in the front of the fuselage the side outlets look out of place. And if I don't have the side outlets the bottom outlet looks out of place too. SO.. I'll probably make one more try to make the shark mouth and if I don't like the results I'm going to go back to the version without "any" of the outlets (both sides and bottom). I'm beginning to think I shouldn't have started this project.
 
I created the outlet on the right side of the plane this morning and added the outline for the shark mouth. I'm going to give it another try but his time I'm not looking for a super good mouth just something that looks decent so please give me a little leeway on it.

Trident 36.jpg
 
I wonder... the air outlets look too close to the nose to me. The actual opening is right at the firewall, not in front of it. Can you slide them back an inch or 2? It doesn't look like there's room for the engine in front of them. And it seems like there isn't enough room in front of them for the sharks mouth. Could that be part of what's bothering you? Here are a couple more photos. Note that the back of the air outlet is pretty close to the leading edge. And you can even see how far forward of that the bottom scooped-out area is.
I'll certainly give you as much leeway as you need.

Right Front.jpgRight.jpg
P.S. :confused: I have no idea how I got myself into that photo! I don't remember using a timer or anything. And I'm SURE I took the photo myself.
 
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Bill Stuntz said:
I wonder... the air outlets look too close to the nose to me. The actual opening is right at the firewall, not in front of it. Can you slide them back an inch or 2? It doesn't look like there's room for the engine in front of them. And it seems like there isn't enough room in front of them for the sharks mouth. Could that be part of what's bothering you? Here are a couple more photos. Note that the back of the air outlet is pretty close to the leading edge. And you can even see how far forward of that the bottom scooped-out area is.
I'll certainly give you as much leeway as you need.

View attachment 129648View attachment 129649
P.S. :confused: I have no idea how I got myself into that photo! I don't remember using a timer or anything. And I'm SURE I took the photo myself.
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The truth is when you cut-in stuff like that and it has recessed areas trying to slide it back is a problem. I've done it before and it usually causes shaded areas where the cutouts are, so no I don't want to move them. I'm sorry you're not happy with them I worked hard on them and did the best I could. But for the record the front of the cutouts are "exactly" aligned with the firewall. It doesn't seem I ever get stuff right.
 
technoid said:
It doesn't seem I ever get stuff right.
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That statement is WRONG! And you're also wrong that I'm not happy with the cutouts - they're great. But I assumed it would be trivial to move them by cutting them out & pasting them farther back on/in the fuselage, leaving the original surface where the cut-out used to be, especially since they're on a flat area of the fuselage. Empahasis on ME in ***-u-ME. I had no idea that it would be a problem. I don't feel even the slightest idea that there's any hope that I could do what you do so well.
 
I finished the shark mouth cutout this morning and will post an update soon but I thought I'd post a picture so you can see the placement of the shark mouth and the outlets. I tried to get the end of the shark mouth to have about the same space from the back point of it to the outlet behind it to look like your picture. I'm not sure the shark mouth is quite as long as yours but it's the best I could do.

Trident 40.jpg
 
Looks GREAT. FYI, I'd have to remove the cowl to be sure, but I think my engine is mounted about 1 inch forward of the firewall to allow the fuel tubing to bend around the engine in the engine compartment. I might have moved the firewall back a little to allow for that. My fuel tank is a standard (4oz, I think) rectangular plastic clunk tank with the rubber plug & feed/filler/vent connections in the center front rather than a metal wedge shaped tank with the outlet at the outboard side & inboard top/bottom fillers/vents that were more typical for C/L back then. The outlet would have been against the outboard fuselage wall rather than behind the crankcase backplate.
P.S. The entire engine compartment & inner cowl is doped flat black for fuel proofing.
 
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Bill Stuntz said:
Looks GREAT. FYI, I'd have to remove the cowl to be sure, but I think my engine is mounted about 1 inch forward of the firewall to allow the fuel tubing to bend around the engine in the engine compartment. I might have moved the firewall back a little to allow for that. My fuel tank is a standard (4oz, I think) rectangular plastic clunk tank with the rubber plug & feed/filler/vent connections in the center front rather than a metal wedge shaped tank with the outlet at the outboard side & top/bottom fillers/vents that were more typical for C/L back then. The outlet would have been against the outboard fuselage wall rather than in the center of the crankcase backplate.
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Had I known about the spacing I could have modeled it that way but it probably doesn't matter in RealFlight. I normally have an engine mount, and I did on the original, but I took it out for this version since you can't see it anyway. And of course that would have pushed the firewall back some. But all in all the external spacing of the cutouts on my model seem very close to your picture.

Right-sm.jpg
 
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