TX16s with USB connection as controller

hsamuels

New member
I'd like to use a Radiomaster TX16s as the controller for RF8 with a USB cable. I've started with several controllers from the dropdown list and saved them as TX16s. In the edit screen, the bars representing stick position are at about 65% when the sticks are physically centered. And some of the channels seem to mix into other channels, particularly at full deflection.
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Why would the center position return about 65% after calibration? And why are some channels getting mixed into others?
 
Make sure to do a "double" calibration - Go to Windows Devices, and find the now installed "Joystick Controller" or "Game Controller" and work through calibrating it there first. THEN open RF, and calibrate it there.
 
Thank you, Flapper. It looks like it needs to be working in Windows before I can ask it to work in Realflight.

In this window, each indicator responds to one switch or stick axis, and the centers appear to be correct. Windows thinks that it's a game controller, and the calibration procedure tells me to do things like press corners of the D Pad, and press a button on the controller. It does not seem to respond to pressing a button, but I can click through to the next step. When I reset to default, this is how the indicators respond:

Throttle: X Axis
Rudder: X Rotation
Aileron: Y Axis
Elevator: Z Axis
SF: Z Rotation
SE: Slider (bottom one)
SB: Y Rotation
SH: Slider (top one)

Everything seems to be fine, and the centers seem to be about half the bar length. But in Realflight, the centers when the sticks are in the middle, and even the center position of the 3-pos switches, are all 64%. The controls are all independent But when I move the flap switch (4) to either up or down, instead of center, the rudder seems to be mixing into the flaps, and not in a gentle way. Both bars seem to go crazy.

Any additional suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 

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Hmmm...I just deleted all my controller profiles, so I could start from scratch. I am using a Taranis.
Check your outputs in the TX. Are they all centered at 1500? Max and Min at 100? If not, reset them, then do the Windows calibration again, and then run through the RF setup again. (BTW - custom controller configurations are stored in "My Documents", RealFlight 9, Radio Profiles NOT in the Program Files folder. Just delete the file before starting up RF to start controller setup from scratch, again.

Note that in OpenTX 2.3.11 there is a note that a change was made to make it compatible with the latest usb game controller used by Windows. Prior to that, there was an issue, where one had to revert to older drivers. On my system, it no longer allows you to calibrate in Windows. But will in RF 8.5. So perhaps an update to OpenTX may help....
 
Thanks for checking back, N8LBV! I haven't been able to resolve the issue, so I'm using a Spektrum WS2000 wireless dongle for now. It works perfectly, but is limited to 8 channels, which is why I'd like to get the USB interface working.

Flapper, all inputs and outputs are set to +/-100%. My monitors show us, and they are 988us at -100%, 1500us at 0%, and 2012us at +100%. When the sticks are centered, the monitors read 1500us or 0%.

Did you have the same problem, and was it resolved after you deleted the profiles and set them up again?

Thanks for the tip on 2.3.11. I'll make sure my backups are current and try that.
 
Sorry, but never had the problem! I am, however, using USB direct to the computer, not a wireless connection.
 
Updated to 2.3.11, deleted the controller profiles, set it up again in RF8, and - same thing happens.

Nominals values on the sticks are still about 64%, and there seems to be some mixing between channels.
 
Updated to 2.3.11, deleted the controller profiles, set it up again in RF8, and - same thing happens.
Nominals values on the sticks are still about 64%, and there seems to be some mixing between channels.
You should begin with a "blank" or stock model; it looks like you have mixes, and rates | expo setup. This is fine if you want it, but it seems clear you don't. In any case you should NOT have rates|expo|mixes setup in the radio AND in the Sim controller radio profile.
If you have rates setup in the radio, turn them off in the Sim radio profile. If you want to use software rates|expo|mixes in the Sim radio profile, then turn them off in the radio you are using as controller.... but, NOT both.

marcus
 
You should begin with a "blank" or stock model; it looks like you have mixes, and rates | expo setup. This is fine if you want it, but it seems clear you don't. In any case you should NOT have rates|expo|mixes setup in the radio AND in the Sim controller radio profile.
If you have rates setup in the radio, turn them off in the Sim radio profile. If you want to use software rates|expo|mixes in the Sim radio profile, then turn them off in the radio you are using as controller.... but, NOT both.

marcus

His screen shots and descriptions are for setting up the controller, which is where he is having the issue. NOT a model. (Well, downstream it will effect the model - all models). Something is "biasing" the output between the Windows joystick driver and how RF interprets them when configuring the controller.
 
His screen shots and descriptions are for setting up the controller, which is where he is having the issue. NOT a model. (Well, downstream it will effect the model - all models). Something is "biasing" the output between the Windows joystick driver and how RF interprets them when configuring the controller.
Yeah, in the OPs case the TX16s & windows driver for same, is acting 'like' the radio. RealFlight Sim controller radio profile must interface with that. The 'biasing' is happening in the windows driver|Tx16s ( IMHO ); to me this is obvious because the calibration in the sim controller editor is not centered. At this point I will freely admit I have not used the TX16s. The windows driver & TX16s need to be calibrated first; then, calibrate within the Sim. In any case, if there are mixes or rates|expo in the settings for the TX16s & windows driver they should be turned off. Only use the software mixes and rates in the Sim. (one or the other)

Does the TX16s require the windows driver software to function? If not, one thing to try would be to uninstall the driver and see how the Sim responds to the bare TX16s.

If the TX16s requires the windows driver for joystick input, then it may not be compatible with the Sim. Virtually any usb game pad controller should work with RealFlight; however, normally additional driver software is not required.

Another thing to try is the Technical Support from the Rf launcher... then run the DX Diagnostics (collect all data) and save to the Dx Diag file. Look at the "inputs" and see how the TX16s is being reported (with and without) the joystick driver. For instance (with no drivers) my controller shows up in DxDiag as an InterlinkDX controller... plugged into a usb controller. It would be interesting to find out how DxDiag "sees" the TX16s controller 'bare' and then 'with' the joystick windows driver installed.

One more thing to check; are there updates to the joystick driver ?

PS edit: on the DX Diagnostics page you can view the Inputs from the "Inputs" tab without printing the entire file.

marcus
 
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If this does not get fixed really soon I will hook mine up and give it a try.
I'm on RF 9.5 now so I will need to grab another computer and install RF 8.5
Or try it on RF 9.5 first.

A few months ago I did install openTX myself onto the TX16S So I am not running the stock version Firmware it came with.

I also updated the multimodule to what was latest then.


I use the OMP protocol to fly an OMP M2 heli from the TX16S
 
OK, try this:
Set up a simple model on your radio. For now, no inputs, just use the "native" sources (sticks, sliders, etc.) in the mixer. All weights 100%. Nothing else. Do like mine: Ch1= A, 2=E, 3=T, 4=R, 5=slider or knob, 6=slider or knob, 7=slider or knob, 8=slider or knob, 9=2 pos switch, 10=2 pos switch, 11= 2 pos switch (if you run out of 2 pos, you can use a 3 for any of them).

With the radio turned on, and the USB plugged in, go in to Windows, Control Panel, Device Manager and find the HID-compliant game controller under "Human Interface Devices". Make sure it is the right one (unplug all other game controllers you have). Right click, and Uninstall Device.

Unplug the radio, then plug it back. Select "USB Joystick (HID)" on the radio screen pop-up. The driver will automatically reinstall. Go to Windows, Control Panel, Devices and Printers and find your controller. Right click, and choose "Game Controller Settings".

Go in to Calibration.
On mine, the switch set for CH 10 worked to advance the calibration screens.
Following the above order of controls, they controlled in this sequence: X, Y, Z, X Rotation, Y Rotation, Z Rotation, Slider 2, Slider 1, Button 1, Button 2 and Button 3. Save when finished.

Delete any saved radio profiles in My Documents.

Go into RF to create and calibrate your controller. I'll skip that detail, as you seem to be familiar with "how to".

Crossed fingers that this sorts it out for you!

IF it is now all behaving correctly, I'll leave it to you to figure out how many active switches on additional channels you want - looks like Windows has the potential for a lot, that then can be assigned to functions in RF.

Whew, that should get you pointed in the right direction. But then will come the challenges of what happens when what you configured gets passed to the RF "software radio" (or not), and what may or may not control what, beyond the basic flight controls, in some of the RF models.
 
... NOT a model. (Well, downstream it will effect the model - all models).
When I'm speaking of 'model' I'm not speaking of a Sim model, nor a real model. I'm speaking of model memory (some radios call it the model slot). In the Spektrum radios the default 'blank' model slot is called "Acro".

In any event; the TX16s is a multi-protocol radio supporting, amongst many others, DSM(2), or DSMX. Consequently, the TX16s should be compatible with either the WS1000 &| WS2000 dongle from Spektrum.
To the TX16s, the dongle looks like a receiver. To the computer|Sim the dongle looks like a game pad controller.

Even though the WS1000 | WS2000 is limited to (8) eight channels, its not really a limitation at all for the Sim, since many of the Sim functions can be programmed in the radio (TX16s). All the rates|expo|mixes can be programmed in the TX16s and do not require channels at all. The Sim may be controlled with 7 channels completely; although, different categories of Sim model may require unique Radio Profile(s)... I have one for planes (wings) and one for helis (drones).

If the usb side of things cannot easily be configured to be workable for this OP use case, it might be advisable to order a WS2000 and try linkup wirelessly.

marcus
 
marcushh77 - he's already currently using a WS2000 with his multi-protocol, and it is working fine.

His issue was getting a wired USB connection to work, so that he could have more than 8 channels. RF can accept input up to 12 channels for various aircraft controls, and then use 13 more for system functions (reset, etc.). But I'm unable to push it that far with my older radio, to test completely. But I am using 8 variable and 8 switched channels...

Ultimately the same as what Windows expects to see for a joystick or game controller. Just silly that the WS1000/2000 caps the inputs at only 8.
 
Wow, Marcus and Flapper, thank you for all the advice.

Let me clarify that I did start with a blank model on the radio. The sticks are all -100% to +100%, no rates, no expo, no mixes. One of my previous comments about a switch for rates wasn't about changing the rates in the radio - it is just an input to RF, and RF applies its own rates.

I do have a WS2000. If I enable the RF multimodule and bind it to the WS2000, it works perfectly, but with the 8-channel limitation. If I then disable the RF multimodule and use the USB cable, with the same model on the radio, that is where my problems arise. When I plug in the USB cable, the radio asks if I want to use it as a USB Joystick or USB storage. After selecting USB Joystick, Windows recognizes it as a Game Controller, and its properties seem to indicate correct operation, as per joystick.png on in the first post. The switches may be mapped to different signals depending on how I happen to set it up (I've tried other configurations just to debug).

I uninstalled the HID-compliant game controller and deleted the radio profile in Documents. After plugging in the radio and right-clicking on its new HID-compliant game controller in the Device Manager, there is no 'game controller settings' option. But I can find it by searching the Win10 Home computer for 'Game Controllers.' The attached image shows the X/Y axis both centered. They are the aileron and throttle respectively. The Z axis is elevator, which is being held to full down, and the X rotation is the rudder. The elevator is being held up to illustrate that the X Rotation appears to be very close to 50%. This is really the crux of the matter - Windows seems to think the calibrations are all fine, but Realflight thinks the sticks are at 64% when they are physically centered.

Back into RF, you can't 'create' a new controller. It seems the only way to do that is to save an existing controller to a new name, delete all the stick and button assignments, and start over.

After doing this, and then calibrating, the same issue occurs. In the RF calibration, the sticks are at 50% until I calibrate them, at which point they think the center is 64%. And at least one of the sticks affects at least one other channel - I think it's rudder to flaps.

Marcus makes an excellent point about how many channels it takes to control RF. I'd like to have:
  1. Throttle
  2. Aileron
  3. Elevator
  4. Rudder (You can tell I came from Spektrum land with this channel order)
  5. Flaps
  6. Rates/Expo
  7. Smoke/gear/guns (all one channel in RF)
  8. Reset
And hey, those fit into 8 channels! 7, if you do rates in the radio. And as Marcus also points out, different modes can be set in the radio for planes and helis, etc. My stretch goal was to include the select, cancel, up, and down functions to enable selecting an aircraft from the controller. But maybe there aren't good button or switch options, particularly for the up/down functions. The select and cancel functions want to be momentary contact, as does the reset button. Since model select functions are used much less frequently than the actual flight controls, maybe it isn't too much to ask to reach for the keyboard and mouse. But on an actual Interlink controller, selecting a model is much nicer.

At this point I'm going to use the WS2000. It provides all the functionality I need, except for the nice model select functions, and has the bonus of being wireless. But as an engineer, it bothers me not to be able to have the option of using the USB connection with the higher number of possible functions.

Thank you Flapper and Marcus for your help!

Howard
 

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The cynic in me thinks that Horizon Hobby does that intentionally to encourage you to buy an Interlink controller.
Yes, absolutely; its not cynicism actually, but it is a common marketing strategy. Spektrum does not want you using the TX16s! They want you to use the DX8G2, or the DX18! If you're Sim training is on the InterlinkDX usb controller console at home, you're more likely going to want to use a Spektrum Tx controller radio in the field.

I am myself tempted to purchase the RadioMaster TX16s Max, but alas, I'm a totally sold-out all-in Spektrum fanboy; partially for the component quality, partially because of Spektrum's patented model match, and partially because 'that' is the system I know (I know my DX8G2 inside and out). The third point is the prominent reason, actually.

On the other hand the multi-mode functionality of the TX16s is quite appealing. Its frustrating for me (I'm an engineer at heart and training also) that something as common these days and also straight-forward as usb is a technical issue!

Howard, be aware, and be careful, with the WS2000; it has one other weakness besides (8) eight channels, and 'that' is radio proximity. Essentially, if the Tx is too close to the WS2000 (less than 1.2 m) it will not work often, or be erratic. It seems to work best when the radio is at 85-95 % batt, and when the Tx is more than 1m from the WS2000. (just a sidebar)

PS edit: I will watch; let us know if you get the usb to work, and what you had to do!
PSS edit: I use blue tooth wireless keyboard(s) and mice (trackball). So, I can set the Rf9.5 Sim notebook way off to one side, pipe my output to the gaming screen (curved 29") and be easily 2.5 m from my Lazy-boy chair to the WS2000... all wireless, works well.


marcus
 
If you are simming for hours it uses less battery to use the USB port.
And I'll also argue less latency than using the radio.
Also don't forget on the TX16S multimodule you can set the radio to low power mode for that model memory
and save some battery there too.
 
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