Aircraft shaking issue

2

2DBob

New member
I make large airports with multiple airports within one and when I fly to one of them in say multiplayer or even offline, the farther I get from the main airport the more the plane shakes. It doesn't shake on nose camera, but it shakes on all onboard cameras and from outside like chase. Why does it do this and can I stop that? I never had the issue with previous realflights, only 7.

And even if I START the whole sim session at that other spawn point away from the main airport, it still shakes violently.

I played with the turbulence settings, no help. Wind settings, nope. Thermals simple vs dynamic - nope either.

Thx in advance
 
A little more specific please. Is it, a particular plane, designed for what (Realflight) version, and at what speed? (max%) Some planes, modeled FOR earlier versions, will react differently, IN later versions.(swap page planes, will specify, which version it was designed, to work correctly, with) Gyro issues (from different versions), can cause a shaking, flutter, wobble. (BTW Good "Search" topics) A gyro speed/ servo speed/ aircraft reaction time, can cause a inherent resonance, that can literally, shake part off your ride. Iv experienced this with certain planes, at full throttle, especially in a extended dive. This should be correctable, with aircraft editor, modifications.
Q: Using multiple airports, inside one... could there be, "LOCAL" turbulence, generated, from specific airports?
 
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I know the issue you describe. It starts out subtle then gets worse and worse. I've noticed it in higher polygon aircraft especially custom models where people have put great detail in the aircraft. I've never been able to stop the shaking, but I think it is worse when there are more separate objects for the sim to calculate on any given model.

If the objects are combined vertex to vertex, then there is less shake. Some of my models are pretty bad such as the JAS-39 SAAB Gripen. Anyone can get in this aircraft and fly in the cockpit view for a few minutes and see how bad it gets. The B-1B Lancer cockpit shaking is very noticeable as well. The reason why these aircraft are so bad is it takes more polygons/triangles to attach the objects together vertex to vertex and these are/were high polygon models at the time they were created. Grouping the objects together rather than attaching the objects vertex to vertex is a way to cut some corners to preserve greater detail, but comes with some cons by adding more separate objects for the sim to calculate.

In all, I would say it's a physics engine impediment.
 
Example RealFlight Add On 3, F-15. At about, airspeed 160-165 it starts doing a high speed porpoise, In RF7. (About 265 in G4) Quick elevator movements bring it on more quickly
 
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I Believe That's a known Issue that usually presents itself in the Sim. as Flutter with Aircraft like Both the F-15 and Gripin That use a flying stab or canard and are using Gyro(s)

I have not played with the Gripin....
but the fix for the F-15/F-16 and the like
is to lower the Elev. Gyro Rate gain.....it ussualy fixes the problem

In 6.5 I set the F-15s Elev. Gyro to 20% and the Control Override at 50%
and the flutter is non-existent...;)
 
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My explaination is all the objects inside the cockpit shaking violently when in camera view. The add-ons F-15 and F-16 are in fact gyro related issues and there are fixed versions on the swaps as AVs.
 
Thanks for the replies.. Adrenoline, it's every aircraft any speed any sierra nevada (i've only tested at sierra nevada and archipelago is too small to recreate the effect).
Maj Numbskully, you seem to have a lot of experiences with it - do you have any idea why it happens on 7 but didn't happen on previous? I.e. update to air physics or something of that sort?
If it's a known issue they may patch fix it I would hope.. bigger fish to fry there though so my hopes aren't up..
 
Sorry...I don't own RF 7
just the latest(last) version of 6.5

Almost every full and most half versions have seen physics engine changes

But "flutter" or Porposing related to aircraft using flying stabs or canards and Gyro(s)
has been a problem since at least 4.0 and is Speed related and not dependent upon distance from the Airport ....that's the weird thing for which I don't have a clue as to why?....I have never seen that
But MAYBE....

mwillson...
Does RF7/7.5 have a "Head Shake" setting like that found in many Aerial Combat Sims ?.....maybe that would be the culprit ??

EDIT;
I just took the Gripin ...(w/ the 5th gen. AV ) out of the Flight School AP with cockpit view in a viewport Ana was able to reproduce the shaking just as you described it matt a few miles out
BUT with out any simulated "flutter" what so ever visible from external views

fyi NOTE; I also had trouble keeping it trimmed ? at first I thought it was my wind/turbulence/gust settings but with them all at 0 I still constantly had to make trim corrections ,even near AP center and after calibration
 
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Maj,

I would have to check on that. I do most of my flying from the ground or nose cam. I don't think I have even checked out the aircraft editor really in 7. I don't remember if I imported the ASK-21 glider in 6.5 or 7 at the moment.
 
Interesting...
I turned off all head movement option on the editor, still shakes like a paint shaker but in the air or on the ground, as soon as the engine is killed, no shake. Weird! But makes sense in a way.
 
Maybe this has something to do with it. I'm working on an EA now and after I made some mods to it when I imported it I used a different physics airplane than before and it just sit there on the ground shaking it's head off and never stopped. It would fly okay but as long as it was on the ground it sit there shaking, pretty badly. In fact I was thinking about making a video of it and putting it on YouTube so you guys could see it, but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

Question. When you create an EA and import it RealFlight asked for a plane as a starting point for the Physics. I was of the impression there was no linkage between the Graphics Model and the Physics Model, but the difference in the way my model reacted with a different RF Airplane as a starting point for the Physics seems to say other wise. So the question is, what kind of linkage is there between the Graphics Model and the Physics Model of the airplane you pick when you import a model you're working on?
 
It seems like there are various DIFFERENT things that are being equated in this discussion.

- Aircraft "shaking" on ground - Caused by improper collision meshes
- Aircraft "shaking" on ground - Caused by wrong gear springiness and joints
- Aircraft "shaking" in air - Caused by Realflight's attempt to model flutter ( yes it is not accurately done ).
- Aircraft "shaking" in air - Caused by improper Gyro settings or stabilization.

The first two are not problems per-se.

With the first the 3D modelers may fail to extend collision meshes properly or deal with mesh/ground contact.

With the second, springy gear is being used where it should not be.

Flutter modeling and high speed stall effects don't mimic what we see in real life once they occur, but the sim does get the WHEN correct.

Since we don't recognize what is happening in the sim, some assume that there is an error in the modeling.

Likewise gyro and stabilization modeling in the sim can have similiar effects or exacerbate the prior instances.

Technoid: - Collision Meshes -
 
opjose said:
It seems like there are various DIFFERENT things that are being equated in this discussion.

- Aircraft "shaking" on ground - Caused by improper collision meshes
- Aircraft "shaking" on ground - Caused by wrong gear springiness and joints
- Aircraft "shaking" in air - Caused by Realflight's attempt to model flutter ( yes it is not accurately done ).
- Aircraft "shaking" in air - Caused by improper Gyro settings or stabilization.

The first two are not problems per-se.

With the first the 3D modelers may fail to extend collision meshes properly or deal with mesh/ground contact.

With the second, springy gear is being used where it should not be.

Flutter modeling and high speed stall effects don't mimic what we see in real life once they occur, but the sim does get the WHEN correct.

Since we don't recognize what is happening in the sim, some assume that there is an error in the modeling.

Likewise gyro and stabilization modeling in the sim can have similiar effects or exacerbate the prior instances.

Technoid: - Collision Meshes -
Click to expand...

Thanks I'll look into that :)
 
There's an old thread on this somewhere dating back to G3 I believe.

It started out with a discussion about aircraft sinking into the ground, but ends up with the specifics of collision mesh requirements.
 
opjose said:
There's an old thread on this somewhere dating back to G3 I believe.

It started out with a discussion about aircraft sinking into the ground, but ends up with the specifics of collision mesh requirements.
Click to expand...

As it turns out I was making some mods to the Boxie Flyer I'm making and one of them was widening the lading gear about 1.6 inches, when I imported it again the shake was gone. Ha... When you're right, you're right.
 
But the weirdest thing about my particular case is, once again, it happens at any speed (including zero), on the ground, and in the air, and only when I'm a mile or more away from the starting spawn point, even if I HAVE another spawn point, if I reset the plane there, it still shakes mercilessly.
Putting mesh requirements and stuff into the picture, perhaps somehow as realflight loads and renders more of an area it puts less into loading "collision/mesh physics" or whatever you want to call it? I'm not computer program savvy, sorry.
 
As adrenaline60 mentioned earlier .....we more info
I think you need to post a link to the aircraft and field in question if possible, to see if what you are experiencing is reproducible so as to find out if its not a setting or something else peculiar about your machine
I'm thinking that if it was something in RF it would have been reported by many others ....which it has not
 
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It's with all aircraft but if you need one made BY me it's the 100in Evektor SportStar on the swaps, that one should do it. I've uploaded one of the fields that does it too, it's a big ol shooting range with raised and flat ground targets (in progress). Open in the editor to see where to go for the next airport if you want or just fly in any direction for a good several miles. Sorry the field's weird looking, but it's one of, like I said, all my sierra nevadas that do it.
 
The EA and AV Import just fine but I get these errors when I try to import the
Shooting Gallery V1 field
 

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