Rf6 == Fail

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Well......I refreshed to the.027 public version. I'm going to wait for our expert pilot prototype (the guy with the real helis that don't bog) to get back from the hobby shop before I form an opinion. I'm going with him on this one :D After his reevaluation, if he gives up his pirated 3.5 version and pays the $200 for the full RF 6 package, we're pretty much good to go. ;)
 
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Small physics changes were usually un announced. Its been its way since G4.

Helis feel less floaty and more snappy to me, i didnt have much time to play with .27 but thats what i have found so far.
 
I hope KE didn't pay the pro heli pilots who helped develop the RF6 physics very much. They could've used Mikey for free!
 
td9cowboy said:
Well......I refreshed to the.027 public version. I'm going to wait for our expert pilot prototype (the guy with the real helis that don't bog) to get back from the hobby shop before I form an opinion. I'm going with him on this one :D After his reevaluation, if he gives up his pirated 3.5 version and pays the $200 for the full RF 6 package, we're pretty much good to go. ;)
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I suppose if I gave into your foolishness and posted a photo of my RF controller box and CD jewel cases you'd just assume I got it off ebay. However, in reality, I purchased it many years ago from my local hobby shop a few months before I purchased my first heli. This heli was a Trex450se.

Today, I have a Bergen Intrepid Gasser, Raptor 90se, Logo 600, Logo 500, custom Lepton EX FBL, Furion 450, Furion 450 FBL, Quark SG, 25% Peak Model Yak and a ParkZone Corsair.

I don't own a copy of RF 4, 5 or 6 because I am a smart consumer. If possible, I "test drive" products before I buy them. G4 and G5 did not add any significant features to warrant upgrading. G6 has what appears to be FBL built in which is a feature I would like even though my modified FBL models on G3 fly extremely well.


I'll talk to my friend who works at the LHS here and see if he can get their copy updated to the new beta... Might be interesting.
 
Nothing wrong with buying a used copy of RF, as long as you get the software and Interlink controller together. His question is why it's a $200 upgrade for you, and for the rest of the G3.5 owners, it's only a $50 upgrade.

I also consider myself to be a smart consumer. I buy only things I want to buy, just like you. I doubt you'll find anybody here who bought a new version of RF who didn't want to buy it. Labeling yourself a "smart consumer" does not set you apart here. By your logic, anyone who bought 4 or 5 is not a smart consumer. Your logic is flawed (I know, big surprise). Your desires do not define the desires of the rest of the planet.
 
Mikeymike21 said:
Yes I saw that. Are you sure you guys can't feel the differences in the heli physics?
I sure can.
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Note that KE stated changes to the "airfoils".

This INCLUDES Heli Rotors, but does not necessarily mean physics was changed at all.

So in that respect you can see a difference without any effective physics changes.

As always it is best to quantify whatever you perceive one way or another.
 
prototype3a said:
So, after 13 pages, you guys finally figured out that the value for g may in fact be correct.

Therefore, it must be something about the airflow dynamics around objects that is making models feel overly floaty in RF6.

BTW, if you actually read any of my posts, you would have seen that I was using Phrank's data to estimate the value of g. You might have also noticed that I mentioned the overly floaty feeling in my OP but you wasted ~10 pages on personal attacks instead.

Still no comments as to my second complaint??

"What's this bogging at full throws nonsense? NONE of my REAL helis do that."
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I'm just curious what heli's you fly that you don't experience any bogging at full throws. My T-REX 450 SE V2 can bog down quite a bit at full throws depending on the manaeurvers I'm performing if I don't pay attention to collective management. Bogging happens. When I flew the Esky Belt CP, I would experience lots of bogging since the power setup I had was horrible.

I've also seen my friends fly their heli's such as the T-REX 500, Blade 400, T-REX 550 and various nitros and they all have a tendancy to bog down when pushed too hard. The only heli's I've seen my friends fly which don't bog down no matter what you throw at them are the T-REX 700 Electrics, Protos 500 and the Furion 450.

I'm not posting this as a personal attack either in case you misinterpret what I'm trying to communicate with you. Your personal experience may differ than the setups in Realflight. Also be aware that the hobby shop displays don't get updates with the patches, so if you don't have your own copy, then you don't get to experience the updates to the software.
 
Mikeymike21 said:
Yes I saw that. Are you sure you guys can't feel the differences in the heli physics?
I sure can.
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I'll try it out in a bit. I think I'll finally have some time to get on the sim this week. I hate the holidays.
 
Alright Mikey, although I really would like to see you struggle a little longer to prove your point, I feel it. And the stock sbach holds better in a hover against the torque also.
 
mwilson914 said:
I'm just curious what heli's you fly that you don't experience any bogging at full throws. My T-REX 450 SE V2 can bog down quite a bit at full throws depending on the manaeurvers I'm performing if I don't pay attention to collective management. Bogging happens. When I flew the Esky Belt CP, I would experience lots of bogging since the power setup I had was horrible.

I've also seen my friends fly their heli's such as the T-REX 500, Blade 400, T-REX 550 and various nitros and they all have a tendancy to bog down when pushed too hard. The only heli's I've seen my friends fly which don't bog down no matter what you throw at them are the T-REX 700 Electrics, Protos 500 and the Furion 450.

I'm not posting this as a personal attack either in case you misinterpret what I'm trying to communicate with you. Your personal experience may differ than the setups in Realflight. Also be aware that the hobby shop displays don't get updates with the patches, so if you don't have your own copy, then you don't get to experience the updates to the software.
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The stock power system on a T450 is ok and will bog at extreme throws. However, my Furion 450 is close to 550-600w. It is VERY powerful. It is also very efficient. The motor, battery and esc are never more than warm even after being thrown around fairly hard. IMO, 4s with a 2221-10 is the best combination of power and efficiency for a 450.


On both Logos, I have 13.5 degrees collective and the 600 has 623mm blades on it. Both are running the v-bar gov. I forget how much pitch the Furion and Lepton have. It's all about understanding your power system and using good components and not so much about any particular model.


My point was that it appeared that they coded the sim so that a heli will bog at extreme throws whether or not the programmed power system would bog in real life.


As I said, I'll have to talk to my buddy who works at the shop and see if we can't get their setup updated to the beta. I'd bet it's the same process as any home user.
 
jeffpn said:
Nothing wrong with buying a used copy of RF, as long as you get the software and Interlink controller together. His question is why it's a $200 upgrade for you, and for the rest of the G3.5 owners, it's only a $50 upgrade.

I also consider myself to be a smart consumer. I buy only things I want to buy, just like you. I doubt you'll find anybody here who bought a new version of RF who didn't want to buy it. Labeling yourself a "smart consumer" does not set you apart here. By your logic, anyone who bought 4 or 5 is not a smart consumer. Your logic is flawed (I know, big surprise). Your desires do not define the desires of the rest of the planet.
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My understanding is that the $50 upgrade can not be applied to G3.5. I believe if you read the fine print it says it only works with G4 and G5.

I did not say that people who purchased G4/5 were not smart. Do not put words in my mouth. I said that they did not add any features that I wanted. I believe they added combat and nicer graphics as the major features and at the time, I could not feel any differences in the flight model.

Today, I suspect I would be able to feel the differences but I can't say for certain. It's interesting how when you've been flying for a long time, you start to pick up on the little nuances. Differences between blades, servos, FBL systems, FB mechanics, governor response, etc. I hate to say it but some differences you won't feel unless you do specific maneuvers to "look" for them. This is one reason why FBL systems could be seen as bad for new pilots. They can't push the flight envelope in the right ways to expose setup problems. So they may think their model is setup well and try a new trick and be surprised by the behavior of the model.

I can honestly say that I probably wouldn't notice problems with a sim flying an airplane. I just don't have enough stick time to see the problems.
 
The fine print does say that the RF6 upgrade is for G4 and G5. KE has stated that the upgrade will work on G3.5. That is well documented in the forums. Flexible can confirm that for you. He has 3.5, and RF6 works with his old controller.

I don't own a copy of RF 4, 5 or 6 because I am a smart consumer.
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That is what you said. You said nothing about what you wanted. I do understand what you were trying to say, but stating that you are a smart consumer has nothing to do with the point you wanted to make. I think you like being combative. I knew that in your first post. I can hang with you!!
 
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prototype3a said:
The stock power system on a T450 is ok and will bog at extreme throws. However, my Furion 450 is close to 550-600w. It is VERY powerful. It is also very efficient. The motor, battery and esc are never more than warm even after being thrown around fairly hard. IMO, 4s with a 2221-10 is the best combination of power and efficiency for a 450.


On both Logos, I have 13.5 degrees collective and the 600 has 623mm blades on it. Both are running the v-bar gov. I forget how much pitch the Furion and Lepton have. It's all about understanding your power system and using good components and not so much about any particular model.


My point was that it appeared that they coded the sim so that a heli will bog at extreme throws whether or not the programmed power system would bog in real life.


As I said, I'll have to talk to my buddy who works at the shop and see if we can't get their setup updated to the beta. I'd bet it's the same process as any home user.
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I understand about the componenets and not the model affecting flight characteristics. I'm blanket assuming that 99% of people who have the Furion 450 for example have the powerful setup most commonly used. I've never seen anyone go with T-REX 450 supplied motors and ESC's and use those in a Furion. I had my chance to get a Furion 450 for dirt cheap including all high quality electric components for $500 total. This was a sponsered deal I was offered, but not like the sponsership most people are aware of at funflys. My deal was to fly at our local fields because I fly 450 sized helis very well and a local shop wanted me to get people interested in the Furion 450.

I also assume the average Protos and T-REX 700 E owners have powerful and efficient setups. People like me with a T-REX 450 SE V2 (not all T-REX owners), just use the supplied Align stock motor and ESC and I've destroyed a few batteries when I was using the 15T pinion. I needed the higher head speed to fly how I liked to fly, but the Align ESC and Motor cause the batteries to overheat even on short 3 min flights. This is also where the bogging issues come into play for someone like me.

If I was like you and flew Logos, I would invest into the best electonic components or nitro engines as well to take full advantage of what that heli can do. I have a new ICE-50 ESC still packaged waiting to be installed into my T-REX 450, but I still haven't been able to find the Scorpion motor I need to complete my setup, so I'm still using the Align stuff. I'm not even sure how much these upgrades will work to my advantage given the SE V2's gear ratios from motor all the way to the tail rotor.

I flew the Furion 450 in the sim a little while ago and I would say it's not responsive enough compared to the real world models I've seen fly and have flown myself. My T-REX 450 in the real world is even faster on the cyclic and collective response than the Furion in the sim, but I can modify the sim physics to be more in line with what I've experienced. So, I don't care so much about this deviation.

The update overall is improved quite a bit over the initial release in my opinion. I've been happy with how the heli's have flown since I got to play with RF6 as the feel was quite different and visually things seemed to respond more naturally with my stick inputs. I'm not the best at describing things to people. I do agree there were things I eventually noticed that needed tweaking.
 
I've got the scorpion in my t-rex 450 V2 on 3s and it will still bog quite easily with the stock gearing. Some improvement over the align motor but not a lot.
 
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Cougar said:
Group Hug? I can not believe this is still going on? :eek:
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I agree. But it appears that people are starting to come to a (very limited) understanding.


But then again, What do I know?
 
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