Swing and a miss!

J

js3862

New member
Guys I really love the idea of basic but, IMO it's a real shame you decided to not include MP functionality or virtual instruction modules.

Without a basic training module or virtual flight instruction a new pilot (apparently one of your targets for this product) is going to take a lot longer to gain any usable experience without having someone sitting next to them handing the controller back and forth. Even FS-One in all its ridiculous asininely non-updated state sports virtual training sessions.

I'm sure there are probably a bunch of technical considerations for why you may or may not have included specific features and possibly some marketing reasons as well. But, from a usefulness standpoint I would have to say that at first blush this seems lacking. It would be great to allow Basic users to interact with more experienced pilots in MP sessions but, at very least you guys should offer one of your "magic" updates to add the virtual trainer modules.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Those people who consider those features to be important should by G4.5. RFB has a minimal set of features at a minimal price. I think RFB is a great idea for those who want to fly their planes virtually, at the lowest cost possible. Surely you don't expect to have the same set of features in RFB that G4.5 has at twice the price?
 
I think for a beginner it was a home run!
many people new to real flight
are new to the hobbie
or
are parents who want to introduce thier kids to the hobby but are not so sure if the kid will "take wing" as it were
and may not want to put down 2 uncle Ben's for for the full blown version
also its alot like buying your first rc aircraft....its wiser to make that one a "realitivly inexpensive" trainer
than to go right out and get that 38% extra with all the bells and whistles as your first plane
also there are many folks who have desk tops and lap tops that cant really handle the full version as well

in these economic times KE needs to generate cash ......just like the rest of us...
you can't blame them for haveing a little marketing savy...can you?
 
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RealFlight Basic is designed to be a low-cost, simplified version of the simulator that is approachable by children, newcomers to computers, and customers in markets where English is not the dominant language.

Our VFIs are great, but they are all recorded in English, and it would be hard to translate those, so we removed them. Other features, like import/export, require lots of text to explain, and would be hard to make work with the simplified controller, so they did not make it to Basic.

Rather than focus on what Basic doesn't do, let's allow Basic its own identity. There are a lot of people who are put off by the feature set (and complexity) of RealFlight, many people who cannot afford it, many people who want to give their children something they can safely play with, people with low-end computers who can't run the full version, people in other countries who might not speak English, etc.

For these customers, we think RealFlight Basic is a welcome product.

Over time, I'm sure Basic will evolve the same way the main product has, and I'm sure we'll learn things from Basic that will apply to the full product, and vice versa. The important thing is that we are getting simulators into the hands of people who otherwise wouldn't have one, and that is good for the whole R/C hobby as well as every RealFlight customer.

Jim
 
I also think that RFB is a great idea for all the reasons that you all have already shared.

The one thing that I think would make it more attractive would be the ability to be able to upgrade it in the future to the full version at a reduced price. I could see alot of people buying basic and then after getting comfortable with the sim wanting to have more features available but would not want to then sink another 200 bucs into the full version. I don't know how feasible that might be though because of the simplified controller.
 
Just browsing through ebay I see used copies of G4/4.5 recently selling for around $140 on average so I would guestimate, that Basic might resell for ~70ish. If so, the do it yourself upgrade cost would be around $130. My guess is that any official upgrade wouldn't be cheaper than that.
 
jbourke said:
RealFlight Basic is designed to be a low-cost, simplified version of the simulator that is approachable by children, newcomers to computers, and customers in markets where English is not the dominant language.

...

Jim
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Ok Jim, it's your product to do with as you see fit. I would just make the point that specifically the people meeting those criteria would be the ones most likely to benefit from some form or basic instruction. Nobody is suggesting that there should be VFIs for 3D maneuvers but rather some basic instruction on takeoff, landing and control. VFIs of that nature could be created with little or no spoken language if one was interested in doing so.

The other thing that I was trying to point out is that for the price point you have listed on the tower site of $100 you will undoubtedly sell some of your product. However, with features like MP and/or the "VFI"s missing many people will probably still go for an alternative product like FS One which has a trainer module or they'll just bite the bullet and grab a copy of 3.5, 4.0 or 4.5 off of e-bay like orion had mentioned. I'm sure you guys probably have already figured that into your plan though so, I'll leave it at that.

Good luck and good flying!
 
Good Move!

The product will generate more sales, and with the ability to run on older / slower machines it will help some people get started.

But, you can never please everyone! :eek: So if it fits your needs, and budget buy it. If not purchase 4.5.

Jeff you will need a replacement head real soon! ;)

Jbull :D
 
Upgrade option?

RFB is a great way to get started without a big hit to the wallet. I would have done that were it available, but shortly I would have been wishing there were an upgrade path to the full feature version. However, judging from the low number of people who actually do MP (4.5, that is) I'd say it's not a strong selling point for most users.

Maybe I missed something, but if you buy RFB for $100 and later want the added features of the full version, does that cost you another $100 or $200?

Regards
Michael
 
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i agree with luthier...

i dont ever use MP... just to crowded and always too much smoke ad chat to actually get a good flight in
 
It's really rather simple; if MP and instruction is important to you, get the full version. If it's not, get Basic. Duh.
 
jeffpn said:
It's really rather simple; if MP and instruction is important to you, get the full version. If it's not, get Basic. Duh.
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No, it's not that simple. When you are starting out, you simply don't know. You don't even know what a sim is. You've maybe been told some things by friends or tried it out a a LHS, but you quickly see that in order to really see what's going on, you have to buy it and spend some time with it.

Then as you get into it, get some experience, you may want more. Maybe not, but an upgrade path would be nice.

And "you" can change all the above "you"s to "I"s and we have my case. :)

Regards
Michael
 
It really is that simple. When j got on board the RF bandwagon, I had a choice between G2 selling for $200, and RF Lite (I think it was called) that sold for $129. I did my homework, decided what was important to me, and I bought the full version. The Lite version was not upgradable, either. I went from never hearing about RF to making an informed decision in about a weeks' time or less. Deciding between G 4.5 and RFB is exactly the same process.
 
just throwin this in there

why are we arguing on RFB... i mean we already have G4.5

why should we get mad KE for creating a product that we will almost certinally never buy

lets stop dissing KE and congratulate them on not doing what most companys are doing right now... laying off and cutting production





(we bolded because i didnt want to say nobody will ever buy... we who have g4.5 probably wont buy this)
 
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It's probably nothing a new customer will worry about, but from a G4.5 owner's point of view, for me the show stopper would be the missing aircraft editor. For sure most newbies won't need the full aircraft editor, but currently it's the only way to change the CG, the exponential settings and the maximum deflection of control surfaces.
Without the possibility to change at least these settings, you have to live with the default setup, which would make me very unhappy with RealFlight. IMHO, the guys at KE should really consider to add a minimum setup dialog.
 
I think the last thing a company wants when it introduces a product at half the price is for many of its existing customers to decide that they could happily trade down to it, so, so far, it's looking like they did a reasonably good job on the feature set.
 
Hi all, My 2 cents.

I applaud KE for putting putting RFB on the shelves. Perfect price point. Perfect mix of BASIC features. My biggest gripe is it wasn't available 3 months ago when I enter this hobby. (LOL)

I had just spent $180 on a HZ Super Cub LP, and crashed it on my first flight. I knew I needed a sim to learn on. I agonized over whether to buy RF4.5 or not. I simply could not justify spending another $200, and didn't think the guys at HobbyTown would appreciate me hanging out in their store for 10 hrs using their RealFlight kiosk. But I wanted to fly my dang plane (after it's broken nose had healed of course) and see if this hobby was for me.

Had RFB been on the shelves, I would have snapped it up without even thinking twice.

Here is the rest of my story for those readers I haven't put to sleep already...

I actually downloaded the RF4demo and used it to learn the basic response of the plane to my (keyboard only) controls. I put up with the nag screens, and the full stick throw limitations of the free simulator. It was enough sim training to make my second real flight successful (I didn't crash my cub "as hard" the second time). By then I was hooked on the hobby.

I eventually l purchased RF4.5 but only after spending hours searching for a good deal. What convinced me that I could spend $200 on a sim, was not that fact that it would save me at least $200 in broken planes, though my logical brain could see it as an "investment". But I got over that $200 mental hurtle knowing I could sell RF4.5 later on eBay, and recoup some of that cash. That made it a "net" $100-ish product for me.

Other than downloading planes off the swap pages, I have yet to use the fancy features of RF4.5.

And that brings me to my one and only gripe of RealFlight/KnifeEdge. (after which I'll shut up) I realize KE must have had good business justification for giving Great Planes more-or-less exclusive content rights. I just yearn for (and would be willing to pay real money for) Horizon-based aircraft in your totally awesome product. Nothing against the community provided planes, (most are very good) but the KE aircraft are much more polished (on the whole).

I hope RFB gains KE more market share, AND expands the entire sim market.
 
Tecate said:
I just yearn for (and would be willing to pay real money for) Horizon-based aircraft in your totally awesome product.
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They have their own sim. RF is better! And the full version of RF has unlimited aircraft, just takes a little work on your part, that's all. ;)
 
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I agree. RF is way better, and I hope RF's market share numbers reflect that. I, for one, would rather fly an imported SuperCub in RF, than a native one in that other sim.

I just thought folks would like to hear from someone that's closer to RF Basic's intended audience. The new product should sell well. I believe RFB is a swing and a hit, not a miss. It remains to be seen if it's a base-hit or a home run. But it's at-least a triple in my book.
 
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