RF 7.5 Bug Reports

[12oclockhigh]

Maybe an airport editor upgrade is in our future?? I sure hope so...

I absolutely HATE what has been done to the OSD when the camera gimbal is rotated. The horizon line is all messed up. How the heck is someone to fly on instruments? You can set the horizon and ladder anywhere you want it to be.

Octocopter 1000

Let me add... I wish they would add a Multi-Rotor Icon in the aircraft selector that would group all MR aircraft together. Same with Aircraft and Helicopters, so you could just pic one of the three types. The current Grouping selection throws all aircraft into alphabetical order. Is that grouping?

 

[25thCentury]

Remembering Aircraft Editor Configurations

It would be nice of the editor could actually remember the layout I want it to have, the default one is sh... pretty bad in my opinion."

I agree 1000%. Even though its not technically a bug, it deserves immediate attention. KE has put a lot of work into a beautiful new editor that is excellent in many ways. Getting it to remember configurations is a simple and essential ingredient to making it user friendly. Right now it won't even remember its own "layout 2." The most user friendly solution is to remember a few different user defined layouts that then appear in the layout submenu with hot key assignments. Again, not a bug, but way more important than something in a wish list. If you don't want a lot of people wishing they had the old editor, this has to be fixed.

 

[csgill75]

All the new Multicopters don't shut down completely when throttled all the way back. I first thought it was my calibration on my interlink and re calibrated but still none of the new models shut down completely when throttled all the way back. the Older quad's work just as they always have as well as all other electric aircraft for me.

 

[N8LBV]

Not really a bug but I've noticed that all the *new* quads are always self leveling even in ACRO mode.
There is no true gyro only or manual mode on them.
The "quad copter" included with RF7.0 still flys manually.

 

[Johnny31297]

try the tricopter with the manual modes.. all other copters aren't set up for acro.

 

[N8LBV]

Thanks will try it out.
They had a dropdown under "electronics" for the 3-level switch, ACRO mode is one of the choices
and not in one of the positions by default.
Maybe it is a provision for ACRO but not used on those quads.
Anyhow I tried it and they still self-leveled

 

[Raylon]

So the quads fly really annoyingly. No quad I have ever flown counteracts when I let off the stick. When I fly my 200QX When I'm moving forward and let go of the stick, the quad just levels out, but instead in RF 7.5, the quad attempts to stop all movement by moving in the opposite direction. This wouldn't happen at all in models that don't have GPS who are attempting to stick in one spot.

 

[Johnny31297]

Thanks will try it out.
They had a dropdown under "electronics" for the 3-level switch, ACRO mode is one of the choices
and not in one of the positions by default.
Maybe it is a provision for ACRO but not used on those quads.
Anyhow I tried it and they still self-leveled

Can't confirm that, Acro works on every quad I set it up on.

 

[Johnny31297]

Bug: Those are not supposed to show up there.

 

[Ryan Douglas]

"THE FILE IS READONLY. CHANGES ARE NOT BEING SAVED TO DISK. *EDITOR CLOSES*"

As Adam said, a case is now filed to look into this some more. We should at least be able to change the behavior so that if this does happen, the editor won't exit without saving your changes. But the fact that it's happening at all is confusing to us.

Essentially, it's saying, "Is the file read-only?" "No." "Good, save it." "I can't." "Why not?" "It's read-only." That's pretty weird.

Has anybody else ever seen this?

 

[Ryan Douglas]

I posted in another thread about a physics problem with a new quad copter...

When fast forward flying the Octocopter 1000, IdleUp2, high rates, the bird starts spinning and the spin cannot be controlled with rudder. I was flying FPV from a nose camera.

Thanks for the report. We have reproduced that issue here and filed a case.

The new multirotors models are pretty complicated beasts. It takes a lot of careful tuning to make them fly correctly in all different circumstances in all the different flight modes. The behavior you described is simply a setup issue with that particular model.

We will probably continue to tune the multirotor models in subsequent updates.

 

[Ryan Douglas]

I absolutely HATE what has been done to the OSD when the camera gimbal is rotated. ... You can set the horizon and ladder anywhere you want it to be.

First, I should point out that the elongated 0 degree pitch line is not an artificial horizon, even though with a fixed camera pointed forward it will more or less align with the horizon as the model's attitude changes.

The gimbal camera is designed for photography & videography (and in real life is often controlled by a second operator); it's not necessarily a good way to actually pilot the model.

The HUD overlay shows what's happening with the copter, not the camera. It's there to give you feedback on what the model is doing because when flying FPV you don't otherwise know its attitude. A gimbal only exacerbates that problem.

Here is an example of an OSD combined with a gimbal camera in the real world. You can see that it indicates what the model is doing, regardless of the camera's orientation.
Rolling
Tilting the cam (exactly what you describe in RF)

(This is not unique to multirotors. If you fly a jet up to 10,000 feet in nose cam then level out, the 0 degree pitch line won't match the horizon, either.)

The current Grouping selection throws all aircraft into alphabetical order. Is that grouping?

It is grouping by the selected option, yes ("Product" by default). But I appreciate your larger point that you'd prefer more granularity. We do have cases for that and related ideas.

 

[Johnny31297]

As Adam said, a case is now filed to look into this some more. We should at least be able to change the behavior so that if this does happen, the editor won't exit without saving your changes. But the fact that it's happening at all is confusing to us.

Essentially, it's saying, "Is the file read-only?" "No." "Good, save it." "I can't." "Why not?" "It's read-only." That's pretty weird.

Has anybody else ever seen this?

Obviously... https://forums.realflight.com/showthread.php?t=26381

 

[Ryan Douglas]

It would be nice of the editor could actually remember the layout I want it to have, the default one is sh... pretty bad in my opinion."

I agree 1000%. Even though its not technically a bug, it deserves immediate attention. KE has put a lot of work into a beautiful new editor that is excellent in many ways. Getting it to remember configurations is a simple and essential ingredient to making it user friendly.

I agree. However, it turns out to not be simple at all. We are continuing to look at it. I can't make any promises about how it will end up working. For what it's worth, remembering custom layouts is high on our list, as well.

Having said that, we've delivered a vastly superior new editor even without that feature. The tabbed layout is much better than scrolling up and down through the old (sometimes giant) property tree, especially when bouncing back and forth between physics and electronics. Now you can just change tabs with a single click, and the item you're working on in each pane is conveniently remembered so you can pick up right where you left off.

Remember that in the old editor you simply couldn't make any of those kind of adjustments in the first place. But I understand. The new possibilities are tantalizing.

 

[Ryan Douglas]

All the new Multicopters don't shut down completely when throttled all the way back. I first thought it was my calibration on my interlink and re calibrated but still none of the new models shut down completely when throttled all the way back. the Older quad's work just as they always have as well as all other electric aircraft for me.

That is by design. An electric motor is able to respond much more quickly to the rapid on/off demands of stabilized flight modes if it never needs to spin up from a complete stop. This is how models with more full-featured flight controllers are set up in the real world.

As such, models in RealFlight that use the new multirotor flight controller are set up the same way. Older models that do not have a MRFC component and therefore do not support any of the advanced new flight behavior will behave as they always have in the past.

You can control this behavior in the MRFC via the Minimum Throttle Value property (in the Advanced Parameters section). It defaults to 10%.

 

[Ryan Douglas]

Not really a bug but I've noticed that all the *new* quads are always self leveling even in ACRO mode.
There is no true gyro only or manual mode on them.

I can't reproduce that here. When I fly a multirotor that is actually in Acro mode (I tested with the tricopter and octocopter), it does not auto-level. It will happily maintain its current attitude all the way into the ground.

It sounds to me like you think you're in acro mode even though you aren't.

There are 6 available flight modes. Each of the stock copters has 3 of those modes available and selectable via channel 8 (the 3-pos switch on the InterLink).

The description for each model tells you what flight modes it supports. None of the standard variants include acro mode. They are configured for Stabilize, Altitude Hold, and Loiter.

Only one special variant is set up for acro: the Tricopter 900 (Manual Modes).

Of course, you can edit any model to change those modes or how they are selected! Look at the Multirotor Flight Controller's Flight Mode 1-3 properties.

 

[Ryan Douglas]

So the quads fly really annoyingly. No quad I have ever flown counteracts when I let off the stick. When I fly my 200QX When I'm moving forward and let go of the stick, the quad just levels out, but instead in RF 7.5, the quad attempts to stop all movement by moving in the opposite direction. This wouldn't happen at all in models that don't have GPS who are attempting to stick in one spot.

You are in Loiter mode. It is designed to behave exactly as you describe: when you let off the sticks, it attempts to hold that position. That necessarily involves some correction in the opposite direction.

It sounds like you're looking for Stabilize mode, or possibly Altitude Hold.

The aircraft description for each new multirotor lists the flight modes it supports.

 

[BigMike1]

As Adam said, a case is now filed to look into this some more. We should at least be able to change the behavior so that if this does happen, the editor won't exit without saving your changes. But the fact that it's happening at all is confusing to us.

Essentially, it's saying, "Is the file read-only?" "No." "Good, save it." "I can't." "Why not?" "It's read-only." That's pretty weird.

Has anybody else ever seen this?

I have seen it many times between RF6 and RF7. My experience with 7.5 is very limited so far (only changed one thing in the editor) so I have not seen the error on 7.5 yet.

 

[12oclockhigh]

OK, I am getting used to this... it really freaked me out at first. Using the tilting camera gimbal actually gives me more information not less. I just have to learn to trust the numbers and the HSI. It should be useful in close quarters FPV landings.

Thanks for the consideration on the "Select Aircraft" form... so much could be done there. Sorry to keep b***hing about it. MRs are not helicopters... a new symbol would be great.

First, I should point out that the elongated 0 degree pitch line is not an artificial horizon, even though with a fixed camera pointed forward it will more or less align with the horizon as the model's attitude changes.

The gimbal camera is designed for photography & videography (and in real life is often controlled by a second operator); it's not necessarily a good way to actually pilot the model.

The HUD overlay shows what's happening with the copter, not the camera. It's there to give you feedback on what the model is doing because when flying FPV you don't otherwise know its attitude. A gimbal only exacerbates that problem.

Here is an example of an OSD combined with a gimbal camera in the real world. You can see that it indicates what the model is doing, regardless of the camera's orientation.
Rolling
Tilting the cam (exactly what you describe in RF)

(This is not unique to multirotors. If you fly a jet up to 10,000 feet in nose cam then level out, the 0 degree pitch line won't match the horizon, either.)


It is grouping by the selected option, yes ("Product" by default). But I appreciate your larger point that you'd prefer more granularity. We do have cases for that and related ideas.

 

[N8LBV]

Can't confirm that, Acro works on every quad I set it up on.

Acro not working as expected for me let off sticks copter flattens out does not hold any commanded angle.

"quadcopter" that was already with RF7.0 and the tricopter *do* work as expected
for this mode.