Exact Replica of real R/C VTOL on the Swap Pages

arb6591

arb6591

Active member
Hi VTOL fans and everybody else as well ... :)

I will post shortly great replica of R/C VTOL that is being build in real life as described below.

The Physics Model is mastered ( look it up to see why I used that word) by Joe Davis.
I made 3D Model and two additional Color Schemes trying to satisfy all tastes :D

It’s a 10th scale model of a 6 passenger business aircraft that can take off and land anywhere a single engine helicopter can and fly to a destination at 345 mph up to 1400 miles away. This simulator model is nearly an identical rendition of the actual 10th scale proof of concept RC model that will be completed and flown in 2008.

Visit www.vertiplane.com for more information.

More info is provided in the Swap Pages Description and Physics Model Description.

Please post your questions and comments in this thread.

Thank you and have lots of fun with this unique design.

Andrzej
 
Beautiful Piece of work Andy!

I've been following this project with great interest on RC Groups.

I'm glad the project finished succesfully.

Frank...
 
Thanks Frank,

It was quite a job ... :D lots of editing but the effort paid off very well.
I will be working on the G4 version shortly using Doug's instructions on renaming files.

I am very impressed by the Physics Model , Joe did an excellent job.... many edits also :D

Andrzej
 
Very very nice! , True flight physics, I crashed :D :D This is one of those planes that raises the bar for future models here.

Keep up the good work.


Brentg
 
I must have spent 2 hours flying this thing around last night... Great craft!

Looking forward to the G4 version... the 3.5 version works great in G4 already!
 
No issue... I was just saying the current version works great... but I understand the G4 version is on its way.
 
I have sent the private message to divebudd...... it seems he just misunderstood the way this plane operates and was trying to take off with horizontal flight configuration with 3pos switch down ( nacelles parallel to the ground)
I hope that after my explanations he can enjoy VP-124 to it's full potential :)

No Frank, I am not "cooking" anything new for G4 as far as VP-124 goes ...
Actually I failed converting it , Doug sent me some instructions on how to do it but I must have been too tired ... I will try again, I would like to post it on the G4 Swap Pages for guys who probably never even look for G3 Swap Pages so they do not miss that definitely unique design... :D

Andrzej
 
I'm curious....

What's the point of a 4 engine VTOL? Obviously, the V22 has pretty much proven that VTOL designs can be successful, and the BA-609 will probably be certified sometime in the next century or so (actually, I don't know what Bell's progress is on this right now.)

What are the advantages of a 4 engine design? I can think of a couple: higher CG range, and better redundancy in single engine out situations. With the way the engines are canted in the vertical position, I imagine that the vehicle is also more stable in the hover.

But do these advantages outweigh the control difficulties and the increased probability of failure?

I'm NOT being a naysayer - I actually like the design. I'm just trying to better understand the motivation behind building a 4 engine VTOL.

(And is there an X-Plane model for this? I noticed the XP screen shots. I'd love to try the full size variant in X-Plane).
 
arb6591 said:
No Frank, I am not "cooking" anything new for G4 as far as VP-124 goes ...
Actually I failed converting it , Doug sent me some instructions on how to do it but I must have been too tired ... I will try again, I would like to post it on the G4 Swap Pages for guys who probably never even look for G3 Swap Pages so they do not miss that definitely unique design... :D

Andrzej
Click to expand...


Importing the G3 model into G4 worked just fine for me.

At worst exporting it as a G4 model again should fix any problems, but I had no issues.
 
I did it again ... :) It worked this time.

VP-124 is now on the G4 Swap pages.

I know that G3 imports nice to G4 but I wanted to post it so those who do not look at G3 Swap pages still have an opportunity to fly this plane.


Andrzej
 
TomXP411 said:
I'm curious....

What's the point of a 4 engine VTOL? Obviously, the V22 has pretty much proven that VTOL designs can be successful, and the BA-609 will probably be certified sometime in the next century or so (actually, I don't know what Bell's progress is on this right now.)

What are the advantages of a 4 engine design? I can think of a couple: higher CG range, and better redundancy in single engine out situations. With the way the engines are canted in the vertical position, I imagine that the vehicle is also more stable in the hover.

But do these advantages outweigh the control difficulties and the increased probability of failure?

I'm NOT being a naysayer - I actually like the design. I'm just trying to better understand the motivation behind building a 4 engine VTOL.

(And is there an X-Plane model for this? I noticed the XP screen shots. I'd love to try the full size variant in X-Plane).
Click to expand...

As a mechanical engineer, it never seemed to me like a good idea to take 2 helicopters and stick them out on the end of a wing and connect them with a driveshaft, which is basically what the V-22 and BA-609 have done. I also admire what they've done because of how incredibly complex it is, and they've made it work.

The model is 4 engine just because it was easier to make that way and the only way I could find to do it in RealFlight G3.5. This version is a proof of concept to make sure it can transition from hover to cruise and back. The next version will have one engine connecting to variable pitch props through drive shafts. It's much simpler to do that than make a V-22 or BA-609, in my opinion. Some would argue that driveshafts are unreliable, but the Bell X-22 used driveshafts to drive its props and it was one of the most successful VTOL aircraft of its time. Also, on the next version the props will be bigger so that if the engine quits, it should be able to auto-rotate like a single engine helicopter. The driveshafts and transmissions can be much smaller, the CG loading range can be greater, and the "foot print" is smaller with 4 props than 2 props of equal area, and the biggest advantage is a single engine aircraft is much lighter and cheaper to operate. Also, as you scale up it can actually be flown with no artificial stabilization, as you'll see when you fly the X-Plane version. I've made some changes as I was designing the model, so give me this weekend to incorporate those changes to the full scale model. I'll post here when it's done.

Also, which do you like best, the V tail or T tail?
 
on the x-plane model: Sweet! :) I'll check it out when you've posted it.

I've built several planes for XP now - some successful and some not (from a flight standpoint.) I think my favorite is still the Socata TBM 700 model I built for XP 5 (and subsequently ported to 6, 7, and now 9). I also spent a LOT of time practicing in the BA-609 model. I'm disappointed that it's not part of XP 9. Maybe I'll port my XP 7 model up to 9.

For the powerplant, most helicopters have 2 turboshaft engines linked to the same transmission. Set up that way, with all 4 rotors on a common transmission, you should be almost as safe as a single-rotor copter in the hover, and even safer in forward flight.

As to the tail: I think that v-tails look better, but from everything I've read, standard tails are more stable and controllable, especially in crosswinds.

They used to call the orginal Beech V-tail the "Doctor killers", because they'd tend to crash when trying to make a cross-wind landing. I'd be worried that a cross-wind gust would cause the plane to nose down, rather than just swing the tail around a little. However, one advantage in being a VTOL is that you can almost always face in to the wind when landing.

As to t-tails - there's a definite advantage of the high horizontal stabilizer. The only thing you have to worry about is losing control authority in the stall, but since your wings are unconventionally placed, elevator authority isn't really an issue.

Speaking of which, have you tried a model with no horizontal stabilizer? Your wings are placed in a pretty good canard arrangement... it seems that with some aileron mixing (or maybe inboard flaps/elevators), you could eliminate the need for an elevator altogether.

Speaking of which: how are you controlling pitch and roll in the hover? Variable blade pitch?
 
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I've seen that Doug Schluter in the ratings comments has found something I missed, one of the motors is assigned wrong. I'll get Andrzej to post the correction in the download section. If you want to make the change without the download:
Edit the aircraft then Airframe/Front Wing/Front Motor Nacelles/Motor, then Throttle Servo (Right) should be Front Right ESC PT Roll Mixer.

I can't believe it flies being assigned wrong but the rear motor being further out must overpower the front motor in roll. I didn't see much of a change in the way it flew, but Doug said it did, and it really should be changed.

TomXP411 said:
Speaking of which, have you tried a model with no horizontal stabilizer? Your wings are placed in a pretty good canard arrangement... it seems that with some aileron mixing (or maybe inboard flaps/elevators), you could eliminate the need for an elevator altogether.

Speaking of which: how are you controlling pitch and roll in the hover? Variable blade pitch?
Click to expand...
I've done the stability calculations in a spreadsheet and they're very close to what X-Plane shows in it's Data Out, and it won't fly without the additional horizontal stabilizer, at least not in the extremes of the CG design range. The control surfaces on the front and rear wing adjust pitch and roll in cruise (there's no control surfaces on any of the tails) and propeller pitch controls pitch and roll in hover.

I'll download the V tail to the X-Plane.org forums when I've made the changes.
 
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Comes up great in XP 9.

I haven't set up my Interlink yet for X-Plane... since the buttons don't map to anything XP can work with, I have to use EventGhost to map the trim buttons and the up-down selector at the bottom.

I think I'm going to map the up/down button to flaps, the red button to gear, and the Menu/Select and cancel buttons to the external and cockpit views.

I just wish XP had "on/off" events for the buttons, so I could use the right switch for gear, like in RF. Oh well, it's still better than using my other joystick. :)
 
Thanks, that's good to know it works in V9, I haven't made the jump yet.

I know what you mean about the switches, I managed to map the Vector/Tilt to the 3 position switch but it was kind of quirky, seems all the switches had to be set a certain way. I just use the keyboard "G" for the gear, it would be nice if you could map it to a switch though.
 
The good news is that you can use an external program, EventGhost, to map everything on the controller.

What you have to do is install EventGhost and activate the "HID Device" plugin. You link the plugin to the Interlink controller, and then it's just a matter of creating key press events for each Interlink event.

Since X-Plane has a separate keyboard shortcut for gear up and gear down, I can map the right-hand switch to the gear.

if you want a copy of EventGhost (it's free open source) and my controller map, drop me an e-mail directly (wilsontp at gmail dot com) and I'll send you a link to Event Ghost and a copy of my control map.

I also use EG to link my Media Center remote to my media software. You can even connect things like MIDI devices to it. It's a very powerful program.
 
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