Airplane hover - can't stop torque rolling...

C

circusfreak

New member
I just got the upgrade today and have been playing around with the helis all night. My initial impression of the upgrade is very positive so far. I am a pretty new heli pilot, but it feels to me like the flybarless helis fly closer to my Trex 500 FBL than they did in 4.5.

On the plane side though, I am noticing something strange. For comparison, I tried to fly the Yak 54 3D model which I fly most often in 4.5. For some reason, now I am no longer able to even hover the thing, as it torque rolls like crazy even with full right aileron applied to try to stop the roll. In 4.5 I can hover this bird all day, so I don't know what is going wrong here.

Please let me know if I am missing something. Thanks!
 
I haven't tried that one yet. It does seem tougher to fly than it was in earlier versions. How does it compare now to flying a real Yak 54 3D model?
 
I don't have a real Yak, but I usually use that model on 4.5 to practice for my 50cc bird. Everything else about it still feels good, except that it does not want to stop the roll. I used to use about 1/4 to 1/2 aileron on 4.5 to keep it from rolling in a hover, and now it doesn't seem possible at all. I'll try on some other planes today and see if they all are like that for me.
 
Hovering the Aeroworks bi-plane from Expansion Pack 7 is also much more difficult, but not impossible. Since I've never flown a plane as large as that with that much power, I wouldn't really know what to expect, so I just mention that it's more of a challenge to fly. Stating this, I will point out that you nearly have to max the aileron throws to prevent it from torque rolling in a hover.
 
Larger models hover easer than smaller ones. A model should Never, ever began to tork untill it is absolutely vertical. A true tork, can allways be stoped with oppisit ails. Very few models will counter rotate useing oppisit ailerons.
(HINT). When looking at the bottom of the plane, the controlls will appear to be backwards, so move the sticks in the direction the plane starts falling.
 
Disclaimer: All of my real planes are below 60 size and at the altitudes that I am willing to hover them, I can barely see the wings, let alone the ailerons. :D From observations at the field and reviewing videos of large models by the pros at XFC, I've always felt that RF seemed a little too easy to hover and required a lot less aileron input than the real world equivalent. In RF 6 there seems to be a substantial increase to the amount of back torque transferred from the engine to the airframe. You can see it on the ground as a substantial left lean on a full power take off and you feel it again while in a hover. Boof hit on a good point, prop size and pitch does factor in. I'm finding that I need to decrease the engine back torque % to 50 with 45 degree aileron throws to counter torque roll in a hover with my go to bird. That does seem like it might be leaning a little too far in the other direction but well within the range of adjustment. Below is a screen shot in a hover. Keep in mind that I could have probably given you a better representation if someone else pushed the tab button.
 

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I had a quick play with the stock Yak 3D. I reduced the prop pitch to 8, Reduced the back torque to 30% and increased the aileron throws to 45 degrees. Top speed is now below 60mph. That seems like a lot of tweaking to a stock 3D model to maintain in a hover. KE definitely needs to revisit this one and if it's found that this carries over in other models, a revisit to the physics engine is in order in this area.
 

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So, because 3D aircraft are now harder to prop hang the physics are at fault? :eek: :confused:

It was way too easy before if anything. Granted I've never attempted that on a Flying Giant.

On one of their smaller cousins:
I made Balsa bits out of my RealLife PA Katana due to my sim overconfidence.
All sim flight parameters were spot-on except for the hover.
May it rest in pieces. :(
 
phrank said:
So, because 3D aircraft are now harder to prop hang the physics are at fault? :eek: :confused:

It was way too easy before if anything. Granted I've never attempted that on a Flying Giant.

On one of their smaller cousins:
I made Balsa bits out of my RealLife PA Katana due to my sim overconfidence.
All sim flight parameters were spot-on except for the hover.
May it rest in pieces. :(
Click to expand...
I think a reread is in order Phrank. If these kind of adjustments are found necessary across a wide range of aircraft in this area, then yes there is a problem with the physics. I would not suggest that yet on my limited findings on two.
 
The stock Sbach that I think is a superb flyer is right on the edge of rolling at stock 100% back torque and 30 degree aileron throw. A little more throw would probably fix that one right up. Edit: Found I needed 45 degrees on everything to get a decent flat spin and hover.
 
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At this point, I can not tell where the problem lies. I have tryed to edit 7 defferant planes from G3, not one of them gets high marks from me now. Just fly around and land, you'll think every thing is good. Put them in a hover, and ring them out, fly them close to a stall, and every thing falls apart completly. I have been trying for two weeks now, and I am not happy with even one plane I have worked on.
 
I had very good results with Boof's spacwwalker but I don't expect 3D capability out of that plane. Comparing it to a Yak or sbach is apples and oranges. Like you said flex, on a nice flight around the pattern, life is good.
 
phrank said:
So, because 3D aircraft are now harder to prop hang the physics are at fault? :eek: :confused:
Click to expand...

Not harder. Try impossible.

I've tried the stock 3D Yak, the stock Sbach, and an ExtremeFlight Extra 300 I downloaded off the share pages.

They all torque roll uncontrollably if you advance the throttle at all. It's not about pilot skill. I'm at full high rates and full right aileron, and they go right around.
 
This isn't a bug!

In real life you cannot quite stop the torque roll on most planes. In fact, I can't say I remember ever having a plane where I could get it to roll in a hover opposite the engine torque, excepting maybe electric profile foamies.

Keep in mind that the default physics settings for RF6 is "Realistic" while for G5.5 it is "Intermediate".

If you want more roll control in torque rolls then just go back to Intermediate. There is no need to edit the aircraft.

Jim
 
Jim, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. While I don't recall ever seeing anyone roll against the torque, I HAVE seen hundreds of pilots able to hold their position in a stable hover against the torque. The stock Yak 3D is not even close and the sbach is just shy. It has always been too easy on the previous versions and I remember being shocked the first time I saw someone with a 25%er at my field do it how much aileron throw he had to hold to fight the torque. He still had plenty left, but it was a lot more than I was used to holding while practicing on RF.
 
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Jim, you realy should get out more. Here are three of my planes; the ROOKIE, the scratch built Godfrey 300s, and my designed Texas Extreme 260. All of these had no probs holdind a hover. In order to hold a hover, you must be able to counter rotate slightly, in order to keep things lined up. The 260 had super sized ailerons, and would counter tork rool.
I am looking for 2.2 times the thrust to weight to have a good hovering plane.
Alcohol models don't make good hovering planes, because they don't have enough prop wash.
 

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