Airplane hover - can't stop torque rolling...
- Thread starter circusfreak
- Start date
opjose
Well-known member
I also have to disagree....
I have no problem holding torque rolls on even my lowly Big Stik .60 with the throws set to give me 35 degree deflection.
It's become one of my "signature" moves at our field, to mimic the much larger planes with a small lowly glow engine plane.... I can hold it until I tire of the stunt.
- AND - I can even do it in winds... You'll see the plane moving accross the field being pushed by the wind from one side to another holding attitude or torque rolling slowly against the motor all the way!
I've no problems holding torque or rolling against torque on the Big Stik .60, Katana's, U-Can-Do's, Twists, and most planes with larger control surface areas.
My larger CARF planes ( Extra, etc. ) also have no problem in the 50cc and above range.
The real life planes will hold or roll against torque ( at reduced spin rate ) until I stop holding the plane vertical, or I loose the stability/orientation....
In G6 with the defaults, even at high rates I do not have enough control authority to hold or counteract engine torque in a roll.
On some planes this SHOULD be the case, but not all of them.
I have no problem holding torque rolls on even my lowly Big Stik .60 with the throws set to give me 35 degree deflection.
It's become one of my "signature" moves at our field, to mimic the much larger planes with a small lowly glow engine plane.... I can hold it until I tire of the stunt.
- AND - I can even do it in winds... You'll see the plane moving accross the field being pushed by the wind from one side to another holding attitude or torque rolling slowly against the motor all the way!
I've no problems holding torque or rolling against torque on the Big Stik .60, Katana's, U-Can-Do's, Twists, and most planes with larger control surface areas.
My larger CARF planes ( Extra, etc. ) also have no problem in the 50cc and above range.
The real life planes will hold or roll against torque ( at reduced spin rate ) until I stop holding the plane vertical, or I loose the stability/orientation....
In G6 with the defaults, even at high rates I do not have enough control authority to hold or counteract engine torque in a roll.
On some planes this SHOULD be the case, but not all of them.
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circusfreak
New member
Wow, good to know I was not going crazy when I asked about this!
Yes, I agree that in the previous RF it was a bit too easy to hover, but it is indeed impossible to do now in RF6 without tweaking the models I guess. In real life I am able to hold a hover with my 89" plane using about 1/2 throw on the right aileron.
What it comes down to is that I have come to expect that things I am able to do in RF will translate fairly closely to the real world models of similar type. It feels to me like for the helis this holds true, while the airplanes have gotten further away, at least for 3D flying.
Yes, I agree that in the previous RF it was a bit too easy to hover, but it is indeed impossible to do now in RF6 without tweaking the models I guess. In real life I am able to hold a hover with my 89" plane using about 1/2 throw on the right aileron.
What it comes down to is that I have come to expect that things I am able to do in RF will translate fairly closely to the real world models of similar type. It feels to me like for the helis this holds true, while the airplanes have gotten further away, at least for 3D flying.
td9cowboy
New member
Guys, before we get out the ropes, pitch forks and headbangers to force a tweak to the plane physics, we may be overlooking something that pertains to the yak and the sbach. They both look to be replicas of scale models and the wire frames (the physics) appear to duplicate them exactly. Can we even expect typical RC flight characteristics out of these birds without modifying the wire frame to reflect typical control surfaces found on the typical RC version? The flight physics may in fact be spot on for these birds as configured. Scale.
jeffpn
Well-known member
You definitely have a good point, td9. I'm sure that KE's modelers may have as hard of a time finding 3-views for models just like us amateurs. Maybe the 3-view drawings used to make the stock Yak were not 3-views of a RC model Yak, but the full size Yak? The real Yak can't hang on it's prop; the engine is not powerful enough. Therefore, it doesn't need the large control surfaces that it's RC counterpart needs to perform maneuvers that only RC models are capable of. Most RC versions of planes are different in wing placement, control surface size, and many other variables, compared to the full size plane. Maybe the RF artist intended to make the Yak an RC Yak, considering it has 3D in the name. Maybe he never took into account that the control surfaces should be bigger on an RC model. I don't think a model redo is in order, but I think just this once (and for any other model with this issue *cough* Sbach *cough*) the wireframe or physics control surfaces should probably be resized to reflect the size of the RC version of the plane, and not the real version. Can anybody dig up a picture of a real plane and an RC plane showing that the ailerons are the same relative size? I bet not.
inky00
New member
Pretty much every plane i have ever owned has been able to hold a torque roll on the ailerons.See attached pics of my mates 50% Bill Hempel Yak 55 hovering with about 30degs aileron input.He has just got CAA approval to fly it at Next seasons UK shows.
Attachments
jbourke
Knife Edge Software Owner
opjose said:
We definitely have something to work on here, but I'm still not sure exactly where the work needs to be done. Flight model or setup?
The organizing question is: If you were to set up a model in the real world exactly like the simulated Sbach, would there be enough aileron to counter-act the engine torque?
My guess is that it is very, very close, but by saying that I don't mean to say that it isn't possible to set up a model differently, or that our way of setting it up matches everyone's experience with real world set-ups.
There is a lot of analysis that goes into these issues. It takes time to make improvements.
For now at least you have some workarounds. The physics settings can be changed, you can adjust the back torque, or you can increase the aileron size. Changing the prop size could also help, but what you gain in aileron effectiveness here may be lost in back torque.
Jim
td9cowboy
New member
I really don't see an option other than KE tweaking the stock Yak 3D version somehow to depict realistic RC flight expectations out of the box for RF 6. That should also apply to any other bird that has a 3D version. That's what the users expect when they choose that model even if it looks scale. There is nothing wrong with the way the sbach looks and flies as is except it is lacking full RC 3D flight capabilities and I would expect it to in a RC flight simulator. Just include a 3D capable version and do it quick out of the box for the newer users that don't have a clue about editing. The old timers are probably going to still tweak it a bit anyway but that's their option.
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jeffpn
Well-known member
I think that depends on where the RF SBach came from. Was it made to look like a small version of your full scale SBach, or an RC Sbach? If I were to buy a RC model of an Sbach, and grew it until it was the same size as you Sbach, I'm sure there would be numerous differences. I bet the wing location and incidence is different. I bet the control surface size is different. I bet the hstab is in a slightly different place, too. I would prefer that RF simulated the type of planes one could go out and buy, rather than the performance of a full scale aircraft. I'm sure your full scale SBach can't hover, but that doesn't mean the RC version of the SBach shouldn't. That's the way people set those planes up, to hover and do other aerobatic feats that a full scale plane can't.jbourke said:
td9cowboy
New member
Hold on Jeff. I see no need to exclude these scale beauties. This virtual world can allow us to enjoy all the eye candy of a beautiful scale bird that flies just like their not so pretty monokote re engineered cousins. Think about it this way....It's a whole lot easier to fly a 3D set up scale than it is to fly a scale bird 3D. Here we can have the best of both worlds.jeffpn said:
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