Flying Sub 1

I really haven't done much with my older files in MAX but I do often have a problem where parts that have any kind of stripe of them the stripe is broken up and nothing I've done fixed it EXCEPT save that part as an OBJ file and then delete the part in the plane and 'merge import' the OBJ to get the part back and it's fixed. I'm thinking the normals get messed up but I don't know that for sure. Anyway I'm having problems but not the same as you're seeing.
 
Fly_electric said:
Spent some recent time working on the shading issue of Max 2015 scenes opened and saved in Max 2018.
From what I've seen, it appears to be a Max bug.

Worked with the FBB rudder for testing. The rudder is an 8 vert, 12 edge object-- just a reshaped cube, so pretty simple.
1. Deleted the four outer edge polygons: shading gone
2. Bridged in the edges (i.e. new ones); shading returned
3. Deleted and replaced the side polygons to the new edges: shading gone

The shading issue looks the same as that when there is a bad structure such as double verts or a wrong number of edges (such as 5) that cannot be cleanly broken down into triangles. It is as if the info for the structures (and yet not all) are corrupted. Actually, this is not the first time I've seen a open/save issue across versions of Max. I have plane that started in Max 2012, opened and saved in Max 2015, and recently opened and saved in Max 2018. Was ok in Max 2015, but in Max 2018, several pivots were flipped: one wing is rotated 180 on x axis, and a gear door now pivots incorrectly.
When parts get corrupted (such as pivots sometimes getting messed up if the object is copied with links to a parent), it often comes down to just remaking the part.
Remaking the parts is both a drastic solution and far from practical, but it does seem to work. Having said that, we're all still looking for a more practical solution. And while I said looks like a Max bug, I'm certainly not ruling out the possibility there is something wrong (or could be wiser) with my build technique that a present version of Max "smooths over" and hides the issue, or that there is a new (or changed) FBX export setting that RF8 needs.

K.E.,
Are you guys having any open in older, saved in new Max version issues?


Enjoy a great week.
Click to expand...

are your fbx export setting correct. Also I tried importing so of my older projects from max 2012 and they wont import at all because of the smoothing groups being extremely picky on the conversion from fbx to kex.
 
I have a test model that was quickly put together (new model to also test using Max 2018) of a RW plane I'm trying to get finished and flight ready. It too had the some of the same shading problem areas due to some vert issues in making it too quickly. Cleaned those up and the surfaces are ok. Same FBX export settings as with the problem scenes.

Best guess is file conversion on the first loading into Max2018. Loaded in the FS-1 for the first time last night (started working on the LG animation details) and Max 2018 gave an "this is an obsolete file format" message. That sure sounds like a big clue that Max 2018 doesn't get all the conversions to its likely newer structures 100% right.
 
I had to break alot of the verts, on the edges of the 90 degree angles, on parts to get them to look right.
 
Donamy,

Yes, there is often many a detail that needs to be adjusted or corrected.


LG animation:
Now understand the basics required for more complicated motion sequences and now have a working test version of the retracts for the FS-1. Many thanks legoman! There are a few issues with the test version, like one of the cylinders poking through the fuselage bottom and I'd like to tweak the sequencing a bit, but the basic operation is there.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qibd3i8l69vywv6/Retract animation.mp4?dl=0

In light of the shading issues (opening in Max 2018 or perhaps some bad geometry), I going to rebuild the FS-1. The model has gone through a few attempts over the years, and having gained more experience, will give it a fresh start.

Enjoy a great weekend!
 
It was my first attempt at getting the parts to move together.
And at first the wheel did not rotate far enough, so the travel and the major two cylinders were changed to make things visually work. In the new FS-1 build the movement between all three cylinders will be better (and more realistically) balanced.
 
Have made a little progress on the FS-1 fuselage of late, but then decided it was about time to look into the bad shading.

After some trial & error, it turned out the default FBX export settings at install time had smoothing groups disabled. The settings shown are working ok.
Side note: during part of the trial and error, I tried a 2018 FBX file format (this is 3DS Max 2018), but if exported with that, RF8 interprets the model as an airport object.
The 2014/2015 setting is working. It could be since the FS-1 was started in Max 2015, the 2014/2015 setting is required. Will more when getting to the first 2018 model.


Sorry if this is duplicated info from someone else's post.

12ft:
Not sure yet if it will be the posted version, but for now I'm trying the FS-1 in 1/3 scale.
 

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Fly_electric said:
Have made a little progress on the FS-1 fuselage of late, but then decided it was about time to look into the bad shading.

After some trial & error, it turned out the default FBX export settings at install time had smoothing groups disabled. The settings shown are working ok.
Side note: during part of the trial and error, I tried a 2018 FBX file format (this is 3DS Max 2018), but if exported with that, RF8 interprets the model as an airport object.
The 2014/2015 setting is working. It could be since the FS-1 was started in Max 2015, the 2014/2015 setting is required. Will more when getting to the first 2018 model.


Sorry if this is duplicated info from someone else's post.

12ft:
Not sure yet if it will be the posted version, but for now I'm trying the FS-1 in 1/3 scale.
Click to expand...

Good info and the FS-1 is looking great.
 
Fly_electric said:
Have made a little progress on the FS-1 fuselage of late, but then decided it was about time to look into the bad shading.

After some trial & error, it turned out the default FBX export settings at install time had smoothing groups disabled. The settings shown are working ok.
Side note: during part of the trial and error, I tried a 2018 FBX file format (this is 3DS Max 2018), but if exported with that, RF8 interprets the model as an airport object.
The 2014/2015 setting is working. It could be since the FS-1 was started in Max 2015, the 2014/2015 setting is required. Will more when getting to the first 2018 model.


Sorry if this is duplicated info from someone else's post.

12ft:
Not sure yet if it will be the posted version, but for now I'm trying the FS-1 in 1/3 scale.
Click to expand...

I guess you and I figured out the smoothing fix, at the same time. I was able to fix all the smoothing issues of my models. Would re-uploading them as RF9 EAs be bad form?
 
Thanks guys!


Donamy,

Congrats on the fix!
RF9: I guess it depends. I don't have experience with it, but can models released under newer versions be imported by users with older versions?
 
Fly_electric said:
Thanks guys!


Donamy,

Congrats on the fix!
RF9: I guess it depends. I don't have experience with it, but can models released under newer versions be imported by users with older versions?
Click to expand...

I can import RF8 models into RF7.5 so I assume that something made for RF9 will import into RF8. I even tested it out on a model with SAFE (E-Flite Valiant Tundra). All it took was some editing to make the controls work right. The import went with no errors.
 
I exported my RAF SE5a from RealFlight 9 and imported it in RF-7.5 with no problems, so yeah RF-9 models will work with RF-7.5 no problem.
 
Donamy said:
I meant, is it allowed ?
Click to expand...

It's allowed. You won't be able to export and use any of the proprietary aircraft that are unique to one version and not another as the program will not let you export the EA for it .. only an AV. And to use the AV you need the EA. It will just tell you when you try to load it that you don't have the aircraft it's based on.
 
Donamy said:
I meant, is it allowed ?
Click to expand...

I've never seen anything that said you couldn't grab a plane from the RF-9 swap pages and import it in any of the older version that will allow it. I think the older version support for the new swap page planes might stop with RF 7.5 there were some changes from RF 7.0 to RF 7.5 so new planes might not import in RF 7.0.
 
A little more FS-1 progress today-- and a problem.

Since the shading issue was fixed, it made sense to return to the already modeled FS-1 vs doing all the work again (although what was started on the fuselage was good practice). Also dropped the span to 8 ft and reworked the physics. Flies very smooth now.
Had the left gear pretty much done for the animation, so it was duplicated to the right side. Found the FS-1 was flat on the ground... Cycled the retracts and it got up on the mains, but the right wheel dragged and did not rotate (must have had a wrong part name or link).

Well, not being able to fly at all was not good, so I started from an earlier scene with the more basic gear on the right side.
The right wheel worked again so, I decided to leave that question alone for awhile and started some more model details-- mapping to see some real colors on this plane.

With a good first pass at that, it was back to the investigating the reset issue.
After some trial and error, I find the left wheel with its more complicated linkage falls through the ground if the gear is lowered at reset. The basic retract linkage works as expected. If the gear switch is in the retracted position at reset, all the wheels are extended and make correct contact with the ground. There were no C-meshes yet, but adding them to the RW, LW, and SW make no difference.

So the problem is why the left wheel falls through the ground if the gear is lowered at reset??

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks!
 

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Fly_electric said:
A little more FS-1 progress today-- and a problem.

Since the shading issue was fixed, it made sense to return to the already modeled FS-1 vs doing all the work again (although what was started on the fuselage was good practice). Also dropped the span to 8 ft and reworked the physics. Flies very smooth now.
Had the left gear pretty much done for the animation, so it was duplicated to the right side. Found the FS-1 was flat on the ground... Cycled the retracts and it got up on the mains, but the right wheel dragged and did not rotate (must have had a wrong part name or link).

Well, not being able to fly at all was not good, so I started from an earlier scene with the more basic gear on the right side.
The right wheel worked again so, I decided to leave that question alone for awhile and started some more model details-- mapping to see some real colors on this plane.

With a good first pass at that, it was back to the investigating the reset issue.
After some trial and error, I find the left wheel with its more complicated linkage falls through the ground if the gear is lowered at reset. The basic retract linkage works as expected. If the gear switch is in the retracted position at reset, all the wheels are extended and make correct contact with the ground. There were no C-meshes yet, but adding them to the RW, LW, and SW make no difference.

So the problem is why the left wheel falls through the ground if the gear is lowered at reset??

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

This may be complicated so I will make it simple. the reason the part is getting pushed though the ground is... then a child of a retract is retracted(gear up) its collison and physics is turned off. since your gear comes down in stages you may need to encompase the child components on the top most/oldest/parent gear so parts dont get pushed throught he ground.
 
legoman said:
This may be complicated so I will make it simple. the reason the part is getting pushed though the ground is... then a child of a retract is retracted(gear up) its collison and physics is turned off. since your gear comes down in stages you may need to encompase the child components on the top most/oldest/parent gear so parts dont get pushed throught he ground.
Click to expand...

Good to know I figured this was going to be a collision mesh problem. BUT.. you say "then a child of a retract is retracted(gear up) its collison and physics is turned off" I'm curious how do you find out these details? And please check my DC-4 thread I have a question for your about retract timing. Thanks.
 
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