Realflight G5 ideas...

[Maj. Numbskully]

I suggested the same thing in the first reply to this thread
and so far many people have agreed with me
which makes me happy because the more people that ask for it
the better chance it may happen!!!

 

[CHOPPERSUEY]

Adjustment for Altitude of the flying site .
Barometric pressure and Air Temperature .

 

[Dr.Moo!]

HAY!!!!!! I WANTED THAT!



thanks

 

[martin_05]

I guess the real question might be: What would justify anyone spending money to upgrade?


In my book it is mostly about training tools. What little is available on RF 4.5 is lacking. There is a need for a lot more tools that can take someone from newbie to expert in an organized manner. That, to me, is where a sim has value. You ought to be able to sit in front of this thing, go through 20 to 40 lessons and tests and come out a very good pilot. Another set of lessons and you are into aerobatics, or 3D, etc. This would more than justify paying full tilt to upgrade as it would represent great value and have very real and measurable practical benefits.


Want to practice inverted flight with a heli? Have a mode that facilitates this.

How about landing approaches with a glider? Have a mode that allows you to focus on this. When you push reset it puts the model in final just where you want it so you can practice using spoilerons, crow or whatever.

How about practicing the final half of a landing pattern with a motorized model? Same thing, push reset and you are back to your desired spot on the landing approach and you go from there.

Want to learn to fly at best L/D? Have a visual training aid with feedback.

Maybe the ability to have a pattern appear in air so you can follow it. Might be good practice for loops, rolls, etc. Maybe it gives you a range that you can be off and turns red if you are off or something.

Helicopter landing approach modules?

Someone mentioned winch and towing for sailplanes. I cast my vote.

Include a spring with the kit to eliminate the ratcheting on the throttle stick. No good for collective pitch on helis. I took it apart and pounded the existing spring flat with a hammer. A lot of people might not know or be willing to do that.

MS flight sim has really neat training modules where they have you go through gates and they talk you through various control settings, etc. Nice to have something like that on RF.

The reason the lack of good training tools is so visible to me is that I am currently working on getting my ten year old son trained. This is when I realized that RF is lacking in this respect.

The other request is to PLEASE have a configuration mode where one can select if certain features are enabled or not, preferably with some sort of a text-based script. This applies to training. For example, I have seen how kids favor changing the viewing position to be within the airplane or behind the airplane. This has absolutely zero value for learning to fly real RC. The same applies to the little zoom window. In real life you are on the ground and need to learn to see or judge model orientation based on what you've been doing. If you go too far you loose your model. So, a real training mode where I can configure the flight sim so that it can't be turned into a video game would be fantastic. This is precisely what is making me interested in researching other flight sims, BTW.


Oh, yes, get rid of the stupid eagle. It's useless.

-Martin

 

[Maj. Numbskully]

I guess the real question might be: What would justify anyone spending money to upgrade?
In my book it is mostly about training tools. What little is available on RF 4.5 is lacking. There is a need for a lot more tools that can take someone from newbie to expert in an organized manner. You ought to be able to sit in front of this thing, go through 20 to 40 lessons and tests and come out a very good pilot. Another set of lessons and you are into aerobatics, or 3D, etc.

If you think that you can learn 3d with a plane or helie in "20-40 Lessons" you are sadly mistaken
ya right..... just a few more lessons and you are now a "3D pilot"!
maybe you should better familiarize your self with some of RF features before saying it is not capable of certain things
many that you are "complaining" about ......already exist!!!.....or can be edited in! .......or are not even really needed....

Want to practice inverted flight with a heli? Have a mode that facilitates this.

why would you need a separate mode for that?....just fly inverted and learn!!

How about landing approaches with a glider? Have a mode that allows you to focus on this. When you push reset it puts the model in final just where you want it so you can practice using spoilerons, crow or whatever.

you can already do this!....pick a plane take off fly around to your final
at the point that you wish to "start" from Push the "P" key...
now every time you hit the red reset button
that point is where you will start from every time(even in mid air!)
until you switch planes or select "Clear Position" under "Aircraft" in the RF toolbar

How about practicing the final half of a landing pattern with a motorized model? Same thing, push reset and you are back to your desired spot on the landing approach and you go from there.

Same as above!

Maybe the ability to have a pattern appear in air so you can follow it. Might be good practice for loops, rolls, etc.

There Already are "Direction Arrows" in the AP editor that you can set up to facilitate that

Someone mentioned winch and towing for sailplanes. I cast my vote.

thank you I suggested same in the first reply to this thread!

Include a spring with the kit to eliminate the ratcheting on the throttle stick. No good for collective pitch on helis. I took it apart and pounded the existing spring flat with a hammer. A lot of people might not know or be willing to do that.

there are many threads here in the forum that deal with that and none require a "Hammer" or a "Spring"

MS flight sim has really neat training modules where they have you go through gates

you can edit in "gates"

and they talk you through various control settings, etc. Nice to have something like that on RF.

RF does have an ability to show the virtual "trainers" sticks and other radio settings who talk you through "lessons" or
you can see a "live" persons radio in MP AND talk to or listen to them

The reason the lack of good training tools is so visible to me is that I am currently working on getting my ten year old son trained. This is when I realized that RF is lacking in this respect.

not really if you follow some of the suggestions above
RF is the best Program to learn RC in bar none!!

The other request is to PLEASE have a configuration mode where one can select if certain features are enabled or not, preferably with some sort of a text-based script. This applies to training. For example, I have seen how kids favor changing the viewing position to be within the airplane or behind the airplane. This has absolutely zero value for learning to fly real RC.

. Again already possible!....In the AP editor you can select which views are allowed or not allowed many things have "On\Off" Parameters if you know were to look!!

So, a real training mode where I can configure the flight sim so that it can't be turned into a video game would be fantastic. .

also already possible!....
That depends on how YOU use it AND....
how YOU EDIT the fields and aircraft that you use
for any particular flying or training purpose
but on the other hand....
Why does it matter to you so much
as to weather or not some one turns RF into a "Video game" if that's what someone chooses to do with a program that costs around $200U.S.? ....... it's totally their decision
and how does it adversely affect you if they do???? why do you care??

 

[martin_05]

If you think that you can learn 3d with a plane or helie in "20-40 Lessons" you are sadly mistaken

Sure you can. The key word you seem to have skipped over in your detailed analysis of my post is "lessons". Each lesson is followed by 10, 20, 30, 40 whatever HOURS of practice to master what was taught. Yes, 20 to 40 lessons, as a gut feeling, might cover the subject matter reasonably well.

maybe you should better familiarize your self with some of RF features before saying it is not capable of certain things
many that you are "complaining" about ......already exist!!!.....or can be edited in! .......or are not even really needed....

How about you relax instead of jumping on my throat. I am not complaining. And, yes, I don't know every little angle on this program.

why would you need a separate mode for that?....just fly inverted and learn!!

Far easier with an airplane. With a heli it might be nice to have a mode where you have a virtual inverted "roll cage" so that you can start from the ground upside down and practice hovering inverted and low, much like you would for normal hover. This would be useful.

pick a plane take off fly around to your final
at the point that you wish to "start" from Push the "P" key

That's fine, but it would be far better in the context of a lesson with controllable parameters.

RF does have an ability to show the virtual "trainers" sticks and other radio settings who talk you through "lessons"

In my experience this is of limited use. Remember, I am trying to teach a ten year old. That's not how they think.

Why does it matter to you so much
as to weather or not some one turns RF into a "Video game" if that's what someone chooses to do with a program that costs around $200U.S.? ....... it's totally their decision
and how does it adversely affect you if they do???? why do you care??

If given the choice a ten year old will just use it as a video game and learn very little. As a parent teaching my kids I'd rather have the option to disable video game modes until such time as I decide that it poses no significant distractions. I don't care what you or anyone else wants to do with it otherwise.

In fact, I'd love to see an option to operate as many video games do. In order to gain access to certain features and modes you have to earn them. You do this by taking lessons and passing tests. Kids understand this as nearly every video game has some element of earning more access, freedom and features as you progress. For me it would be very neat if I could configure RF to operate this way as well as keep track of progress for each user. In this fashion each kid could have their user and progress-based record.

The program is not bad at all. I've been using it on and off since version 2. It's just that it would be nice if it had a more structured learning system built in.

-Martin

 

[Maj. Numbskully]

I was not “jumping down your throat” ...Sorry if it came across that way!

You ought to be able to sit in front of this thing, go through 20 to 40 lessons and tests and come out a very good pilot. Another set of lessons and you are into aerobatics, or 3D, etc.

The way you worded it you made it sound like after taking “lessons” and “tests”
you would “come out a very good pilot”
nothing about 30-40 hours of practice after each lesson

With a heli it might be nice to have a mode where you have a virtual inverted "roll cage" so that you can start from the ground upside down and practice hovering inverted and low, much like you would for normal hover. This would be useful.

Is that a very realistic way to learn?
Hovering is the relatively easy part
It is the transition from normal to inverted hover that is the hard part to learn !
you'd kinda be skipping over a fundamental skill needed to hover inverted wouldn't you?

In my experience this is of limited use. Remember, I am trying to teach a ten year old. That's not how they think.

Don't sell your ten year old short !
they can learn a lot by looking at the stick positions!

In fact, I'd love to see an option to operate as many video games do.

well that kinda contradicts many things that you have been saying ...doesn't it?....just razzin ya

In order to gain access to certain features and modes you have to earn them. You do this by taking lessons and passing tests. Kids understand this as nearly every video game has some element of earning more access, freedom and features as you progress. For me it would be very neat if I could configure RF to operate this way as well as keep track of progress for each user. In this fashion each kid could have their user and progress-based record.

However I do like the progressive "test" to move on to a next level idea! .....

Again you can edit in many different parameters in both of the editors
Supervision is the best way to teach a ten year old ....at the field and in the sim(don't let him turn it into a "Game" disable "chase and cockpit views"! in the AP editor)
a “live” teacher in the sim is as valuable as one at the field!
Have you got a second radio so that you and your ten year old can fly side by side using “multimode” in the simm?

 

[martin_05]

I was not “jumping down your throat” ...Sorry if it came across that way!

No problem.

In general terms, I think we can agree that RF does not have a "Flight University" mode where a newbie can sit down and methodically go through a learning process. Left on their own they'll peek and poke here and there and, if lucky, learn to fly. If I wanted to generalize my enhancement idea it would be that they should include a "Flight University" mode. A newbie should be able to to through structured lessons and learn. Looking at sticks in the transmitter isn't enough.

Example: I make a distinction between flying and driving. A lot of people never really learned to fly. They learn to drive their models around. They are so over-powered that true flight isn't really in the picture. You see this all the time when their glow engine goes out and they franticly yell "dead stick, dead stick" and proceed to plow the thing into the ground. Flying is about energy management. You learn to fly best with a glider. That's how I started and that's how my oldest son is starting. He now understands that the elevator is not the up/down control but rather the speed and angle of attack control.

Managing energy during the landing approach is a fundamental skill. Nothing in RF teaches you this. Looking at the sticks on a transmitter on the screen you will not learn this. Hence my statement that the visible transmitter is fairly useless as the newbie level. Once you start getting into maneouvers where you are thinking "How the h*** did he do that?" it is useful to have a peak at the TX and study stick action.

Another example. If you use the landing trainer and decide to just do the final leg...well, if you follow the instructions they make you start final with your throttle at 60%!!! That's just plain wrong. You also don't get to choose what plane/heli to train with. Now, this might be editable, but if it is it really isn't explicitly indicated anywhere at all.

With regards to the contradiction between video game mode and plain simulator mode. I don't think there's a contradiction so long as it is structured as a training tool. For example, being able to fly from inside the model is counterproductive for a ten year old. Why? 'Cause it is very easy to fly around in this mode and have fun. Once they figure out that they can have fun this way they don't much care for flying from the ground. It is hard. Controls reverse. And you can't do all that cool stuff you did from the inside.

We have a really great game on our Playstation. It's called Grand Turismo 4. It is a car racing game with realistic cars of all brands and excellent digital versions of the most famous tracks in the world. We bought a full cockpit with force-feedback steering wheel just to play this game. It's awsome.

In GT4 they start you out with a basic car (a sedan) and, if I remember correctly, about $3,000 in your pocket. You can only enter certain races with this car. As you win or place you earn more money. You can then go to the store and improve your car: better suspension, brakes, turbo, roll cage, etc. You learn to tune your car. You learn about what the different components can do. As you earn more money you can go to the dealerships and buy a different car. Invariably at the start you can't really afford the shiny new high-performance cars, so you have to go to the used car lot and choose wisely. The cycle continues. You win races, make money and improve your car. If you win a championship (three to five races) you actually win a new car. Depending on what cars you have new race circuits and championships open up to you.

Higher level championships require that you acquire specific driver licenses. These licenses require that you pass tests. There is, for example, a test that requires that you complete driving a lap on an iced-over race track in a specified period of time. This is impossible if you did not develop all the cornering, braking and energy management skills through prior training and lessons.

Anyhow, it is excellent. By the time you are able to get into Formula 1 cars you have learned a ton and are a pretty good driver. You learn while having a ton of fun.

I think that if RF had a module that worked this way it would certainly be well worth the upgrade. They should get GT4 and study the way it works. It is fantastic.

-Martin

 

[Maj. Numbskully]

agreed...
there was some talk awhile back how there should be a "penalty" for crashing your model
like a "time out" or something
IMO
it would add a level of reality to the simm
if there was some kind of consequence for crashing......... just as in RL...maybe peolpe would try harder ......and not rely on the red rest button as much!
As a glider pilot myself
I can totally agree that learning to fly with a glider teaches many skills
that transition well to powered flight
(energy management , how to "read" your environment etc. )

 

[jeffpn]

We're all here to have fun. No exceptions. I hope the fun has not been structured out of any training program. I had a flight instructor suck the fun out of my flying lessons. He didn't last, thankfully, or I wouldn't have.

 

[martin_05]

I had a flight instructor suck the fun out of my flying lessons. He didn't last, thankfully, or I wouldn't have.

Can you give me some insight as to how this happened. I am taking the role of flight instructor to my son and I would hate to take the fun out of it. What should I avoid doing (or not doing)?

I think a training mode within RF can easily be a lot of fun. Again, I am leaning heavily on my experience with Gran Turismo 4 on the Playstation 2 to make this assertion. My son learned some pretty heady stuff about suspension tuning, cornering, g-forces, tire compound selection and race strategy without really feeling or knowing that he was going to school. Very well done.

-Martin

 

[apollo_13]

nice idea in post 131 Martin

there is already a Virtual Flight Instructor, but i think that this could be added on to

but i thought about the money idea some time ago and i liked it, then i started not to... you see, RF is a simulator used to teach people how to fly and keeps us experienced guys sharp, IMHO Real Life is the only thing that can truly teach you the aspect of

As you win or place you earn more money. You can then go to the store and improve your plane: better engine, carb, turbo, radio, etc. You learn to tune your engine. You learn about what the different components can do. As you earn more money you can go to the dealerships and buy a different plane. Invariably at the start you can't really afford the shiny new high-performance Edge 540's, so you have to go to the used plane website and choose wisely. The cycle continues. You win contests , make money and improve your plane. If you win a championship (three to five contests) you actually win a new DA 150 Edge 540 [Wa-hoo]. Depending on what size plane you have new contests and championships open up to you.

there are going to be some with a home-made .25 highwing (no-offense to anybody, i know a few guys who have them) and cant enter in anything

good idea but IMO wont quite work in RF



and to Jeff: the job of a teacher of to TEACH, and when you do it right, reward you, and when you do it wrong, tell you how to do it right

some do the later more harshly than others, some still give rewards (like your sons soft ball team)... i dont think that Frank / Jason Noll (whichever is on RF) or a computer will be as harsh as the rest


to maj and Martin: nice job up there with the quoting

 

[crazy1]

all these ideas for rf g5 are really awsome but how much would a sim with these options cost. what kind a computer would you have to have. the computer i run g4.5 on is pretty new and it doesnt run it very good.

 

[Maj. Numbskully]

A "Pretty new" middle ground PC should run RF very well ...my older one does!
Check you graphics settings
Many of the suggestions in this thread are not that advanced
as there are many "game" and other sim. programs that already do many of the things suggested here!
that run quite well on any "pretty new" PC
fsx has tow and release of gliders for example

 

[jeffpn]

Here's an analogy: I have a "pretty new" car, but I just can't pick up chicks with it. (of course I have a Kia, and it's even "newer" than that guy's Corvette.) Why's he getting all the chicks? "Pretty new" doesn't mean much in cars, or computers.

 

[Maj. Numbskully]

yup ...........it all depends on "whats under the hood"
good analogy jeff

 

[crazy1]

how many GB do you need to run rf smoothly? does it make a difference if its a desktop or laptop?

 

[jeffpn]

Much of the performance is determined by the capability of your video card. But also, the message that you refer to shows up on everyone's installation.

 

[Maj. Numbskully]

How many Gigabytes your hard drive can store
does not really have as much bearing on the performance of your pc
It really depends on the speed of your Processor ,
The Graphics Card(and the size of its memory)
and system Ram

Desk Tops
dollar for dollar
have better performance than do
Lap Tops
Your graphics card is the main thing that determines "Quality"
when running a Graphics intense program

 

[crazy1]

can you change the graphics card in a lap top? i know very little about computers.